Converting prehistoric creatures

[freyar]

Originally Posted by demiurge1138

1d4?

That sounds about right to me.

[Shade]

Updated.

Skills: 17 ranks

Advancement: x

[freyar]

Spot 9, Listen 8?

15-42 HD (Huge)?

[demiurge1138]

Spot, Listen and Survival might be wise, so it can find water in the desert more easily.

[freyar]

Makes sense. Spot 5, Listen 5, Survival 7?

[InsanePsychoRabbit]

OK.
It's a desert creature, so its environment should be Warm deserts. (It still says "temperate plains" as a cut-and-paste from the giant camel)

[Shade]

Updated.

15 feet tall at the shoulder, 5 tons?

Organization: Solitary or herd (5-20)?

Challenge Rating: 8? It falls between a CR 7 dire elk and a CR 8 dire tiger, but compares favorably to the CR 8 dire tortoise.

Did we want to give them trample or stampede, which I believe we discussed upthread?

[InsanePsychoRabbit]

I like it all.
Let's give it another special attack to put it solidly at CR 8. I'm not sure whether I like trample or stampede more, but I'm leaning a bit towards trample.

[freyar]

I agree that trample seems to fit their personality better.

[Shade]

Updated.

Trample damage?

[demiurge1138]

Trample damage of double stamp? So 2d8+(Strx1.5)?

[InsanePsychoRabbit]

Exactly what I was thinking.

[Shade]

Updated.

[InsanePsychoRabbit]

OK, let's start on Sarkastodon.

Here's the flavor text I came up with for it:

This brown-furred predatory beast is nearly the size of a rhinoceros. It resembles a melding of bear and cat, with a leonine face and a bear-like body terminating in a long, furry tail.

The bear-like sarkastodon is a creodont, the creodonts being the dominant mammalian land predators prior to the carnivorans. Larger than a grizzly bear, the sarkastodon preys upon Large herbivores like brontotheres, though it may occasionally eat plant matter (and the unlucky adventurer) as well. Sarkastodons are an ever-present danger in lost lands, attracted to travelers' food and garbage and attacking without provocation or warning when confronted.

A sarkastodon is 10 feet long (excluding the tail, which is about one-half to two-thirds as long as the body) and 6 feet tall at the shoulder, weighing around 1-½ tons.

Combat
A sarkastodon begins combat by swatting its foe with its forepaws, moving in to bite after knocking its foe down.
(Because it's so bear-like I anticipated that we'd be giving it either improved grab or trip.)

[Shade]

Here's the original writeup:

Sarkastodon (long-tailed bear)
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Temperate plains
FREQUENCY: Uncommon
ORGANIZATION: Solitary
DIET: Omnivore
NO. APPEARING: 1-2
ARMOR CLASS: 6
MOVEMENT: 12
HIT DICE: 9
THAC0: 11
NO. OF ATTACKS: 3
DAMAGE/ATTACKS: 1-12/1-12/1-12
SIZE: L (10. long)
MORALE: Elite (14)
XP VALUE: 2,000

This carnivore was the largest of the creodonts, an early order of carnivores that included Hyaenodon. Sarkastodon looked much like a bear with a long tail; it was larger than even the cave bear.

Combat: Sarkastodon fights with its paws and a bite.

Habitat/Society: Sarkastodon is a solitary predator, living much like a bear. Its prey includes titanotheres and rhinoceroses, but it also feeds on roots, wild fruit, and rodents. Sarkastodon is at the top of the food chain, having no natural enemies.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #167 (1991).

[InsanePsychoRabbit]

The ability scores from some large bears:
Brown Bear/Polar Bear: Str 27, Dex 13, Con 19, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Dire Bear: Str 31, Dex 13, Con 19, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10 ("A typical dire bear is 12 feet long and weighs as much as 8,000 pounds.")
Dire Polar Bear: Str 39, Dex 11, Con 23, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10 (". . .averaging almost 20 feet in length and weighing as much as 15,000 pounds.")

I'll also throw in the dire wolf for comparison:
Dire Wolf: Str 25, Dex 15, Con 17, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10 ("Dire wolves are . . . about 9 feet long and weigh some 800 pounds.")

[Shade]

Hmmm...

I always thought that the dire bear was essentially the 3e version of the cave bear. If that's the case, sarkastodon should be "bigger and better". The size, however, doesn't support that argument.

Maybe slightly stronger and hardier (considering its preferred prey)?
Str 33, Dex 13, Con 21, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10?

Also, I think it needs a HD boost from the original. Dire bear is 12 HD, and remains Large up to 16 HD. Maybe 14-15 HD?

[freyar]

15HD sounds reasonable.

[demiurge1138]

15 HD and slightly better ability scores than the dire bear... I like lots.

[InsanePsychoRabbit]

Here's what I've come up with.

Sarkastodon
Large Animal
Hit Dice: 15d8+75 (142 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 17 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +7 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +11/+26
Attack: Claw +21 melee (xdx+11)
Full Attack: 2 claws +21 melee (xdx+11) and bite +x melee (xdx+5)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Trip?
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +10, Will +x
Abilities: Str 33, Dex 13, Con 21, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10
Skills: 18 points
Feats: 6
Environment: Temperate plains
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: x
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: x
Level Adjustment: -

This brown-furred predatory beast is nearly the size of a rhinoceros. It resembles a melding of bear and cat, with a leonine face and a bear-like body terminating in a long, furry tail.

The bear-like sarkastodon is a creodont, the creodonts being the dominant mammalian land predators prior to the carnivorans. Larger than a grizzly bear, the sarkastodon preys upon Large herbivores like brontotheres, though it may occasionally eat plant matter (and the unlucky adventurer) as well. Sarkastodons are an ever-present danger in lost lands, attracted to travelers' food and garbage and attacking without provocation or warning when confronted.

A sarkastodon is 10 feet long (excluding the tail, which is about one-half to two-thirds as long as the body) and 6 feet tall at the shoulder, weighing around 1-½ tons.


Combat
A sarkastodon begins combat by swatting its foe with its forepaws, moving in to bite after knocking its foe down.

?(Trip (Ex): A sarkastodon that hits with a bite attack can attempt to trip its opponent (+16 check modifier) as a free action without making a touch attack or provoking an attack of opportunity. If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react to trip the sarkastodon.)


I improved the land speed to 40 feet and the AC to 17 to match the dire bear. Are we going to give it a good Will save like a dire animal?

Base damage for the attacks?

Feat suggestions: Alertness, Endurance, INA bite, INA claw, Iron Will, Multiattack
(Drop Iron Will if we give it saves like a dire animal, and instead give something like Power Attack)