PCs knowing about monsters in the MM, MMII, MMIII and FF

[Jehosephat]

Ok these books are filled with monsters. I was wondering, what percentage of the monsters in those books would a starting adventurer realistically be familiar with? Not necessarily knowing its strengths and weaknesses, but at least hearing about such creatures. For example, I don't think most PCs would start out being familiar with outsiders, demons or devils. But most were probably raised on tales of dragons. When describing a monster that a PC has met for the first time in game, how much do you think PCs generally know about the creature they are facing?

 

[Crothian]

Realistically, very few. Sure they might hear stories or legends but unless they havea good amount of ranks in the right knowledge skill, they don't know squat.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Well, Dragon magazine has taken a cue from Monsternomicon, and has been publishing Knowledge check results for the various monsters they cover in their Ecology articles. So if you can get hold of that (or Monsternomicon), you can get an idea of what a DC 5 knowledge check (what a commoner is likely to know) or a DC 10 knowledge check (what an educated commoner would know) might look like.

The average person is likely to have heard something about practically every monster there is, barring subtypes. So while they will definitely know about demons and devils and might know the difference between the two, they're not likely to recognize the names of the various sorts.

But think of how much trivia the average person has about the things going on in the modern world. It's quite vast, albeit full of urban legends and half-truths. But the average Joe has at least heard of most of what's out there. Likewise, Joe Commoner probably has heard of Behirs, even if he couldn't tell one from the Tarrasque. Also, given that most people have only mundane knowledge skills like Knowledge: Local, they're more likely to know about humanoids than anything else.

Which brings us to adventurers. Adventurers are more likely to have been exposed to people who know about weird stuff. This is represented in the game mechanics by the vast array of knowledge skills and their correlation with various types of things. A druid with Knowledge: Nature is more likely to have heard of treants, while a wizard with Knowledge: The Planes is more likely to know what an arrowhawk looks like. So while Joe Commoner is unlikely to be able to tell an earth elemental from a hole in the ground, Ed the first level wizard has a chance at it.

In other words, go with the Knowledge skills the party has. If they don't have any knowledge skills, treat them as rubes who probably have heard all sorts of superstitious blather and "a friend of a friend once fought one of these, and he swears they're allergic to garlic." Maybe they'll think about picking up some knowledge skills down the line.

 

[MerricB]

In fact, that is one of the very reasons that the Knowledge skills were further codified in 3.5e

"In many cases, you can use this skill to identify monsters and their special powers or vulnerabilities. In general, the DC of such a check equals 10 + the monster’s HD. A successful check allows you to remember a bit of useful information about that monster. For every 5 points by which your check result exceeds the DC, you recall another piece of useful information." - SRD

Cheers!

 

[Saeviomagy]

"In many cases, you can use this skill to identify monsters and their special powers or vulnerabilities. In general, the DC of such a check equals 10 + the monster’s HD. A successful check allows you to remember a bit of useful information about that monster. For every 5 points by which your check result exceeds the DC, you recall another piece of useful information." - SRD

Just don't fall into the trap of thinking that "it's a type of animal" qualifies as useful information unless you've got someone who has the spells to take advantage of it.

 

[Jehosephat]

Thanks for the replys everyone. Based on what you have said how does this encounter with an orc sound?

A piggish neanderthal looking brute stands before you, staring with beady brown eyes. His greenish-gray skin is covered with bristly hair. Protruding from his underslung jaw are two boar-like tusks.

Then perhaps, I can have the orc grunt out something in Orcish. If a player understands that language then allow him to conclude that this may indeed be an orc, or as MerricB suggested allow a knowledge skill check. An orc is 1d8+1. So say the player rolls a 15, then perhaps I could tell them that from all indicators this creature indeed could be an orc. Then perhaps tell the player he remembers a tale that his grandfather once told of a group of orcs that were frightened off by a wizards light spell.

Again how would that be for setting up a PCs first "official" encounter with an orc?

 

[Acid_crash]

Thanks for the replys everyone. Based on what you have said how does this encounter with an orc sound?

A piggish neanderthal looking brute stands before you, staring with beady brown eyes. His greenish-gray skin is covered with bristly hair. Protruding from his underslung jaw are two boar-like tusks.

Then perhaps, I can have the orc grunt out something in Orcish. If a player understands that language then allow him to conclude that this may indeed be an orc, or as MerricB suggested allow a knowledge skill check. An orc is 1d8+1. So say the player rolls a 15, then perhaps I could tell them that from all indicators this creature indeed could be an orc. Then perhaps tell the player he remembers a tale that his grandfather once told of a group of orcs that were frightened off by a wizards light spell.

Again how would that be for setting up a PCs first "official" encounter with an orc?

It sounds like a great encounter, until one of the players says, "It's an orc, kill it." and the group hacks it apart.

Consider it one of my pet peeves of D&D, but I know that most players know most stats of most monsters in these books by heart, and know how best to combat them. Even if you tell them that if they don't have the knowledge skill on their character sheet, they don't know about the monster...the players will still react as if they do know because, as players, they DO know about the monster... and I don't know too many DMs that enforce that kind of roleplaying in a standard D&D game session.

So, when the party comes across some trolls, out comes the fire and acid, even if the characters have no clue what it is they are fighting.

Good luck in trying though.

I honestly think the MM books are the most read books in print, even more so than the PHB. By both DMs and players.

 

[Jehosephat]

It sounds like a great encounter, until one of the players says, "It's an orc, kill it." and the group hacks it apart.

Consider it one of my pet peeves of D&D, but I know that most players know most stats of most monsters in these books by heart, and know how best to combat them. Even if you tell them that if they don't have the knowledge skill on their character sheet, they don't know about the monster...the players will still react as if they do know because, as players, they DO know about the monster... and I don't know too many DMs that enforce that kind of roleplaying in a standard D&D game session.

So, when the party comes across some trolls, out comes the fire and acid, even if the characters have no clue what it is they are fighting.

Good luck in trying though.

I honestly think the MM books are the most read books in print, even more so than the PHB. By both DMs and players.

One thing that some DMs that I have gamed with have done was made it against the rules for players to consult the MM & DMG during the game. That's pretty good, except that doesn't prevent them for looking at home.

I guess another option would be to systematically change each monster enough that players didn't know how to stop it. Of course that requires work too. The ideal situation would be to find a group that doesn't know the weaknesses of all the monsters.

 

[Starman]

I think a lot of it depends on the campaign setting. In the Realms, I would suspect that a lot of people have a smattering of knowledge about a wide variety of the lower CR creatures. They have also probably heard many tales about a lot of more powerful creatures, many of which are not true, but some are.

If you are playing in a setting that does not have as many monsters, the average person will know far less. For example, in Rokugan, I don't think the average peasant is going to know squat about Shadowlands creatures, except that they are bad and scary.

Starman

 

[MerricB]

Again how would that be for setting up a PCs first "official" encounter with an orc?

Here's the thing: the "first" encounter with an orc only really works for the players when they are actually encountering an orc for the first time - that is, in their very first D&D session.

After that, they can possibly pretend to not know what they know... but it grows old, very fast. In effect, you are punishing them for the knowledge of the game they've worked hard to attain.

It might be fine in a game based around role-playing and not combat, but all the players have to be on the same page as you.

It really doesn't work with common monsters such as orcs. The suspension of disbelief required to accept that a character in a world (game) where orcs are exceedingly common doesn't recognise one is just too much.

You have to use something original. (There are a few that might fill the void presented in the supplementary monster manuals)

Cheers!