Sorcerers' spell list

[Perun]

While searching for some files on my hard drive, I found a "top list" of sorcerer spells. The list originally appeared on polls looking for the best PHB spell of each level (made by dcollins), and then collected into the list below by Thanee:

Just for fun, I was looking through the various "what xth level spells should any wizard have" polls and thought, why not take a look at the whole in the form of a 20th level sorcerer who learned the spells strictly following the poll results (I did replace obsolete spells, though):

0th - (9) N/A
1st - Magic Missile, Mage Armor, Shield, Identify, Charm Person (replaced Sleep/Color Spray)
2nd - Glitterdust, Web, Invisibility, Scorching Ray, See Invisibility (replaced Alter Self)
3rd - Fireball, Fly, Haste, Slow (replaced Dispel Magic)
4th - Greater Invisibility, Dimension Door, Polymorph, Stoneskin
5th - Wall of Force, Hold Monster, Cloud Kill, Feeblemind (replaced Teleport)
6th - Greater Dispel Magic, True Seeing, Disintegrate
7th - Limited Wish, Greater Teleport, Spell Turning
8th - Mind Blank, Horrid Wilting, Polymorph Any Object
9th - Time Stop, Shapechange, Wish

Not too bad.

Now, with the various other accessories available (and especially the Spell Compendium), what spells on that list would you replace (naturally, I'm primarily interested in suggestions for my characters, but all suggestions are welcome)?

I'd be tempted to drop stoneskin and replace it with Ruin delver's fortune (SC), and spell matrices (also SC) look somewhat handy as well (although I don't know what spells I'd chose to drop in their favour).

The thing is, the above list really looks good. I'm playing a sorcerer right now for the first time (we never had a sorcerer in the party before), and for someone who is used to wizards having millions of spells in their spellbook, it seems to cover all the bases, and allows for a good amount of versatility.

My character, for anyone interested:[sblock] In our new campaign I decided to play a sorcerer as the party's sole arcane caster (I'd like to thank everyone who offered their suggestions and comments in the An "X" as the party's sole "devoted arcanist" thread, from before the chrash).

Thergrim Strongbeard: Male Gold Dwarf Sorcerer 3; Medium Humanoid (dwarf); HD 3d4+9 (19 hp); Init +1 (Dex); Spd 20 ft.; AC 11 (+1 Dex), touch 11, flat-footed 10; BAB +1; Grp +1; Atk longspear +1 melee (1d8/x3, 10 ft. reach) or MW light crossbow +3 ranged (1d8/19-20, 80 ft. increment); SQ Gold dwarf traits; SV Fort +4, Refl +2, Will +4; Str 10, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 16; AL N.
Skills & Feats: Concentration +9, Knowledge (arcane) +8, Knowledge (nature) +5, Spellcraft +10; Earth Sense (RoS), Silent Spell.
Spells (6/6): 0-level – caltrops (SC), detect magic, light, prestidigitation, read magic; 1st-level – colour spray, identify, shield.

The character will enter the Earth Dreamer PrC (from Races of Stone as soon as it becomes possible (it requires 10 ranks in spellcraft, amongst other things).[/sblock]

Regards!

 

[Evilhalfling]

I think the list was compiled from polls taken for each level.
(by thannee)
Personally I would take assay spell resistance in place of stoneskin, SS is just too expensive to cast regularly. For an NPC its always stoneskin.

 

[Perun]

I think the list was compiled from polls taken for each level.
(by thannee)

OK, I'll edit my original post.

Personally I would take assay spell resistance in place of stoneskin, SS is just too expensive to cast regularly. For an NPC its always stoneskin.

I'll agree with that. 250 gp per casting is a bit too much.

 

[Thanee]

The polls were made by dcollins (best PHB wizard spells of each level) and the above list was just derived (by me, yes) by taking the top choices of each list and write them down as spells known for a sorcerer, to see what the result is. It's not too bad, it's certainly not the 'best' sorcerer list you can do from the PHB, tho.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Perun]

The polls were made by dcollins (best PHB wizard spells of each level) and the above list was just derived (by me, yes) by taking the top choices of each list and write them down as spells known for a sorcerer, to see what the result is.

Edited accordingly.

It's not too bad, it's certainly not the 'best' sorcerer list you can do from the PHB, tho.

I find the list interesting, as I'm playing a sorcerer for the first time (ever) in our group. So far, we only had wizards as arcane casters, and I find the experience very different. By 3rd level, our wizards would have had quite a few spells in their spellbooks, and the sorcerer is limited to just 8 spells total (5 cantrips, 3 1st-level spells). Thus, when playing sorcerers, one has to be very careful when picking spells -- for the most part you're stuck with them for the rest of the character's career.

The list above is rather close to what both me and my DM would have chosen, and I plan to use it as the reference sheet, because it covers all the bases (it has offensive, defensive, and utility spells), and it can keep me from straying too far in any one direction.

And, since you phrased it that way, now I'll have to ask you for the best sorcerer list I'm also going to ask you to repost that enchanter-sorceress' spell list you posted to the sorcerer thread from before the crash. I didn't save it, and it's kind of too late now. Thanks

Regards.

 

[Thanee]

I find the list interesting, as I'm playing a sorcerer for the first time (ever) in our group. So far, we only had wizards as arcane casters, and I find the experience very different. By 3rd level, our wizards would have had quite a few spells in their spellbooks, and the sorcerer is limited to just 8 spells total (5 cantrips, 3 1st-level spells). Thus, when playing sorcerers, one has to be very careful when picking spells -- for the most part you're stuck with them for the rest of the character's career.

Yes, that is right. The few spells you can swap are barely sufficient to upgrade some spells, that are only useful over a few levels. And you want some versatility in your spell selection, otherwise you could play a Warmage rather.

The list above is rather close to what both me and my DM would have chosen, and I plan to use it as the reference sheet, because it covers all the bases (it has offensive, defensive, and utility spells), and it can keep me from straying too far in any one direction.

I'm sure it will work well.

And, since you phrased it that way, now I'll have to ask you for the best sorcerer list

To be honest, I don't think there is one. It all depends on too many factors, which differ from campaign to campaign.

I'm also going to ask you to repost that enchanter-sorceress' spell list you posted to the sorcerer thread from before the crash. I didn't save it, and it's kind of too late now. Thanks

Sure. It's probably still around somewhere in an older post, but those are somewhat hard to track down.

[SBLOCK]SPELLS BY LEVEL

01 - Detect Magic, Read Magic, Daze, Prestidigitation, Mage Armor, Color Spray
02 - Light
03 - Magic Missile
04 - Mage Hand, Scorching Ray, Mending (<- Daze)
05 - Ray of Enfeeblement, False Life
06 - Message, Fireball, Shield (<- Color Spray)
07 - Unseen Servant, See Invisibility, Suggestion
08 - Detect Poison, Polymorph
09 - Command Undead/Invisibilty, Dragonskin/Protection from Energy/Slow, Dimension Door
10 - Arcane Mark, Dominate Person
11 - Glitterdust/Resist Energy, Magic Circle against Evil, Dimensional Anchor, Greater Blink
12 - Planar Binding, Wraithstrike/Swift Fly/Resist Energy (<- Scorching Ray)
13 - Orb of Force/Evard's Black Tentacles, Fleshshiver/Magic Jar/Hold Monster, Analyze Dweomer
14 - Greater Shadow Conjuration, Deeper Darkvision (<- Fireball)
15 - Draconic Polymorph/Telekinesis/Vitriolic Sphere, Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability, Limited Wish
16 - Greater Planar Binding, Wages of Sin/Greater Dispel Magic/Disintegrate/Starmantle (<- Planar Binding)
17 - Energy Immunity/Reverse Gravity/Greater Scrying/Greater Teleport, Polymorph any Object
18 - Dominate Monster, Telekinesis/Refusal/Persistent Image (<- Dominate Person)
19 - Moment of Prescience, Shapechange
20 - Shades/Gate, ?¿? (<- Greater Shadow Conjuration)

FEATS BY LEVEL

01 - Able Learner, Spell Focus: Enchantment
03 - Iron Will
06 - Empower Spell
07 - Silent Spell
09 - Assume Supernatural Ability
10 - Heighten Spell
12 - Extra Spell (Assay Resistance)
13 - Quicken Spell
15 - Arcane Strike/Arcane Preparation
16 - Twin Spell/Extend Spell
18 - Arcane Preparation/Extraordinary Concentration[/SBLOCK]

Bye
Thanee

 

[exile]

I hate the idea of simply picking the best spells for a sorcerer. I would much rather decide on the origin of the sorcerer and pick spells in line with that. A sorcerer with red dragon lineage should look very different from one with white dragon lineage from fey lineage from infernal lineage. Along these lines, I often think of sorcerers as super heroes with their spell lists representing an evolving power step (i.e. the choice of spells should have a unified theme and higher level spells should represent a natural outgrowth based on lower level spells). Anyone else follow this philosophy when making their sorcerers?
Chad

 

[Thanee]

Anyone else follow this philosophy when making their sorcerers?

Choosing spells that fit the character, of course, but with an eye on versatility (mostly for sorcerers) and not stepping on each others toes (the spells, that is).

Choosing spells, which are all going into the same direction (unless that's a very broad direction), hell no! That's the quickest route to an incredibly boring character, that can only do the same thing over and over again (but in twenty variations ). Sure, it will be a nicely themed character, but such themes get old rather quick IMHO.

Bye
Thanee

 

[exile]

Point taken Thanee. Still I think one can have a sorcerer spell selection that is mostly themed with a number of spells thrown in that add diversity without completely going against theme. When I get home (and don't have to worry about being discovered with a D&D book by one of my bosses), I'll see what kind of sample spell selection I can come up with along these lines. I don't often play sorcerers, and am anxious to see if I can prove my hypothesis (at least to myself).
Chad

 

[Thanee]

Still I think one can have a sorcerer spell selection that is mostly themed with a number of spells thrown in that add diversity without completely going against theme.

Sure, that should be possible. Keeping an eye out for the character concept/theme *and* the viability and versatility of the list as a whole is probably the 'best' approach, anyways. But also, likely, the most difficult.

Bye
Thanee