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Old 25th April 2007, 11:42 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Seriously considering Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (2nd edition)

Going through some RPG soul-searching in light of the death of Dungeon/Dragon and other "sky is falling" stuff going on lately. I've decided to take a look at the mysterious Warhammer Fantasy RPG in its current incarnation, the 2nd edition released in 2005.

Does anyone here play this? Anyone know anything about it? I've checked out the homepage for Black Industries (are they connected to Games Workshop?) here:
http://www.blackindustries.com/?template=WH

And also the Green Ronin page here:

http://www.greenronin.com/warhammer_...eplay/wfrp.php

[BTW, what's the story with the Black Industries/Green Ronin thing? Which company actually makes Warhammer FRPG? And how does this relate to Games Workshop?]

Anyway, tell me everything you can about this game. Begin.
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Old 26th April 2007, 12:28 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Warhammer is a great game. I played it in it's original version and I own most of the current products. Good mechanics and pretty straight forward.
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Old 26th April 2007, 12:43 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainsaw Mage
oes anyone here play this? Anyone know anything about it? I've checked out the homepage for Black Industries (are they connected to Games Workshop?) here:
http://www.blackindustries.com/?template=WH

And also the Green Ronin page here:

http://www.greenronin.com/warhammer_...eplay/wfrp.php
I've switched almost all of my gaming activity to WFRP 2e and I really like it. The system is innovative but still close enough to d20 that someone coming from D&D shouldn't have any problem picking up the rules fairly quickly. Combat is full of options without being overly complex. The setting is superb and provides lots of obvious avenues for adventures. I would highly recommend the game.

Quote:
[BTW, what's the story with the Black Industries/Green Ronin thing? Which company actually makes Warhammer FRPG? And how does this relate to Games Workshop?]

Anyway, tell me everything you can about this game. Begin.
Chris Pramas and Green Ronin worked with Black Industries to create the core game. As far as I can tell, that was where Green Ronin's involvement ended. Black Industries is a separate entity that licenses the right to produce material for WFRP from Games Workshop.

I WISH Chris and Green Ronin were more involved with the ongoing development of the WFRP line. The core book is excellent (more typos than I would like, but still, on the whole, excellent). Subsequent releases have been disappointing, both in the quality of their editing and the quality of their content. IMO, most of the supplements are about 20% "GREAT STUFF!", 30% "Eh, this is OK", and 50% "Ugh! My 10 year old nephew writes stuff that's better than this (and with fewer spelling errors)". The notable exception so far has been the Old World Bestiary, which I highly recommend.

I love the game and still buy Black Industries supplements that I think will interest me or give me useful tools for my game, but I refuse to pay the full cover price for anything they print because IMO it's simply not worth it. I buy stuff used or at a heavy discount if I buy at all. If typos and contradictory fluff within the same chapter of a book don't bother you, then this won't be an issue.

I would definitely encourage you to check out the core book though. It's got everything you need to run a WFRP game in one book (with Old World Bestiary, you've easily got enough to run many, many campaigns) so the initial investment to try it out is quite low.
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Old 26th April 2007, 12:59 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainsaw Mage
Going through some RPG soul-searching in light of the death of Dungeon/Dragon and other "sky is falling" stuff going on lately. I've decided to take a look at the mysterious Warhammer Fantasy RPG in its current incarnation, the 2nd edition released in 2005.

Does anyone here play this? Anyone know anything about it? I've checked out the homepage for Black Industries (are they connected to Games Workshop?) here:
http://www.blackindustries.com/?template=WH

And also the Green Ronin page here:

http://www.greenronin.com/warhammer_...eplay/wfrp.php

[BTW, what's the story with the Black Industries/Green Ronin thing? Which company actually makes Warhammer FRPG? And how does this relate to Games Workshop?]

Anyway, tell me everything you can about this game. Begin.
Some friends of mine play it occasionally. They like it. From what they've said the combat system sounds very lethal; lots of pc death, but they enjoy playing it.

I don't think that I've heard anything bad about the system.
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Old 26th April 2007, 01:14 AM   #5 (permalink)
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It's fun, but it gave out for our group. I ran the adventure Karak Azgal about 3 months last year. I changed the combat system a little. I made the unimportant bad guys have zero wounds and subject to immediate critical hits. It made the heroes more powerful, but there is still a lot of dice rolling in combat due to dodge & parry. It is interesting in that it uses all d10s. The game has a lot of flavor, too. Unltimately, it just wasn't for us, I guess.
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Old 26th April 2007, 01:17 AM   #6 (permalink)
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It's like Terry Pratchett writing the 30 Years War, only darker.

Hmm. It's the game where you start out thinking you're playing D&D, only to discover you are in fact playing Call of Cthulhu.
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Old 26th April 2007, 01:39 AM   #7 (permalink)
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It's the game where you start out thinking you're playing D&D, only to discover you are in fact playing Call of Cthulhu.
Seconded. Especially in the first edition, where setting equivalents to Balors, Pit Fiends, etc., were more plot devices for the DM than monsters. Second edition WFRP has increased PC power somewhat, but PCs will almost always be small fish in big ponds.

Also, if D&D alignment is black and white, WFRP is mostly grey with smears of black.
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Old 26th April 2007, 01:43 AM   #8 (permalink)
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The host and his best friend in my group expressed concerns on how deadly arrow fire seemed to be.
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Old 26th April 2007, 01:48 AM   #9 (permalink)
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WFRP is great! I play in omrob's campaign, which is amazingly fun, amazingly dark and totally gripping. I love the characters, the level of randomness, and the ease of learning the (at least basic) system.

Add me to the "you think it's dnd but discover it's CoC" crowd, too.
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Old 26th April 2007, 01:52 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthedm
The host and his best friend in my group expressed concerns on how deadly arrow fire seemed to be.
If someone is shooting arrows at you, you should run and hide under something.

Actually that's probably a good plan for most threats in the WFRP world.
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Old 26th April 2007, 02:14 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Yeah, it's a neat game.

I ran a one-shot, and my group's reaction was mixed. It was fun, but I think the starting PCs felt a little too incompetent for my tastes. if I ran it regularly, I'd probably give the PCs a few more advancements to start.

(Actually, I'd probably use the world & everything, and run it in GURPS. )
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Old 26th April 2007, 02:22 AM   #12 (permalink)
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A superb game, grim and gritty all the way. Being caught dead to rights by a watchman with a loaded crossbow really means something. I highly recommend giving it a try ( of course I could be biased as we have a truly excellent GM in Psimancer )
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Old 26th April 2007, 02:39 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I've played it a little bit; nothing beats it for ease of character creation and 'leveling', though your low chance to do pretty much everything in some careers can get really, really frustrating in a very short time.
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Old 26th April 2007, 03:03 AM   #14 (permalink)
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First edition rocked hard, and 2e looks like a general refinement.

Nitpics: I like Fmir, and I will miss the Jabberwock.
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Old 26th April 2007, 03:33 AM   #15 (permalink)
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My group and I love WHFRP2- its replaced D&D for our fantasy gaming needs. I've been running a campaign using WHFRP2 for almost 2 years now. The system is simple and intuitive (meaning almost no referring to rulebooks during the game), provides plenty of options for character development, and is a breeze to prep for. My group were pretty die-hard D&Ders, but after trying WHFRP2, we've been playing it and haven't looked back. Some strengths of the system:

1. Character creation is FAST and easy, while still being detailed. Characters have very different skills sets and abilities, and they start more competent than a beginning D&D character.

2. Characters don't "level" as quick, and don't become demigods after gaining a lot of experience. A heavily armored warrior facing 5 or 6 weak adversaries is still in a LOT of danger of being hit, and if one or two of them get lucky shots (usually involving Ulric's Fury- expoding 10s on damage dice), that character can go down.

3. Combat is lethal, brutal, and short. Wading into a horde of enemies is suicide, as is charging a battery of archers across open ground. WHFRP2 encourages smart fighting- teaming up, using cover, ambushes, etc- "heroic" characters are often dead characters.

4. Morality in WHFRP2 isn't black and white- its various shades of grey. Even the most well-intentioned character has his flaws, sins, and vices. Even Chaos, the ultimate adversary, can be viewed in positive terms or having positive results in some situations.

5. Insanity! Character can and will gain mental derangements as a consequence of their adventures, experiencing horrific things, and suffering critical hits. The various insanities are rarely crippling to the character, and are darkly humorous- this is one aspect my group has particularly enjoyed.

6. The magic system is very well done and balanced. Not balanced so much in a spell points kind of way, but in that it requires the wizard to assess whether magic is a good idea or not at a point in time. Magic is NOT a good solution to all problems- overusing magic can result in severe spell mishaps (called Tzeentch's Curse), mutation, and madness. In fact, the wizard in my group has developed a phobia of loud noises, and only uses spells that are quiet or cause minimal noise (meaning he almost never uses lightning anymore!).

7. The WHFRP world is awesome in its depth of detail. In addition, its familiar to most players since the cultures are loosely based on cultures of Medieval/Renniasance Europe. The tone of the world appeals a lot to us too- its kinda like CoC, Black Adder mixed with Terry Pratchett but with darker humor, and a good mystery in its tone (meaning WHFRP2 lends itself very well to investigative types of adventures).

8. The system is intuitive and simple. Its a percentile based system, and the GM is encouraged to keep things flowing and not bog things down in charts and rule-checking. When I started running WHFRP2, I checked the books maybe 4 or 5 times a session. Now, if I check something once, its unusual. That lets me focus on the game and the story, and the players love it. I've also noticed my players don't try to "build" out their characters from creation like they did in D&D. Instead they tend to grow more by their experiences, and feel more like real people.

9. Monsters and beasts ARE scary- charging to attack them directly will often result in a messy death or gruesome injuries. Even a bear or other large carnivore can be terrifying. A mob of orcs on the rampage is a scary thing too- they are bigger, stronger, and tougher than humans, and toe to toe, nothing other than a dwarf or chaos warrior can usually match their tenacity and power.

10. Its very well supported too. Black Industries releases one book every month or two, and most of the books have been very good IMO. Must haves include the main rulebook, Sigmar's Heirs (Empire sourcebook), the Bestiary, Tome of Corruption (book of chaos), Realms of Sorcery (magic), and Children of the Horned Rat (Skaven). Even the weakest books they have released- Karak Azgal and the Armory- still have a ton of useful information, and we find WHFRP2 books give us more bang for our buck than any WotC book has. Also, the Black Industries website has over 40 FREE full-length adventures that are very well done for download, written by the developers and fans, with one or two more added per month!


Possible weaknesses of WHFRP2:

Well, for us there aren't any really. But if you like a heroic game or lots of dungeon crawling or combat, WHFRP2 isn't the game for you. Its dark, gritty, and deadly. Character professions are roughly balanced in their advances and abilities, but NOT in their combat prowess- and thats a refreshing change to me. Also, if you're looking for a CR system in WHFRP2, there isn't really one- its expected if characters run into something they can't handle, the RUN! Finally, there aren't many magic items in the game, and getting rich off adventuring isn't likely- more likely you go insane or die. While these are all strengths for me and my group, if you want the same themes and play out of WHFRP2 that you do out of D&D, you will be disappointed.
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