Evolutionary Fantasy

[Reynard]

... alternatively, Athiest Fantasy.

I have been watching a lot of History/Discovery Channel and the processes by which our world came to be the way it is are both mystifying and inspiring. The confluence of chance and physical laws have created a deeply complex, wonderous world teaming with life. What's more, it has done so a number of times throughout the history of the world. Applying this power and wonder to a fantasy world should be easy, no?

So, here's the deal: no gods or divine intervention. Magic is a fundamental aspect of nature, the fifth fundamental force, if you will. Creatures can and will adapt to, and therefore evolve with respect to, magic just as they do to other environmental factors and pressures. The point is to get a rough view of the evolutionary and geological history of a "typical" D&D world.

The most visible and perhaps easiest issue to deal with is multiple sentient species. In our own evolutionary history, there were multiple species sharing the planet at the same time (even if homo sapiens eventually won out). Perhaps a single "progenitor" species spread acros the globe relatively early on but geological upheaval and/or climate change isolated individual groups in distinct environments for an extensive period of time. humans and halflings might have developed side by side, while elves (and the various subspecies) developed under different conditions (perhaps in a region with a higher level of ambient magic), and so on for dwarves, goblinoids, orcs/ogres and giant-kin (and so on). Eventually the conditions that isolated the groups would end or be overcome and the races would come into contact with one another, but well after any individual species was able to drive another to extinction.

Another core lement that must be addressed but isn't as easy to explain are the iconic monsters of fantasy: dragons. Their evolution can be assumed in much the same way as the various sentient species', but with a much greater influence by magic in their evolution. Perhaps dragons were once the apex predators of a pre-mammalian world analagous to the age of dinosaurs, but managed to survive the great mass extinction -- enough to continue on without being so prevalent as to hinder the other species' development. Too many dragons and the proto-demi-humans would never have a chance to flourish, and too few and they would die out long before they could ever be a threat in the game.

That's enough for now. Thoughts?

 

[Teflon Billy]

...Another core lement that must be addressed but isn't as easy to explain are the iconic monsters of fantasy: dragons. Their evolution can be assumed in much the same way as the various sentient species', but with a much greater influence by magic in their evolution. Perhaps dragons were once the apex predators of a pre-mammalian world analagous to the age of dinosaurs, but managed to survive the great mass extinction -- enough to continue on without being so prevalent as to hinder the other species' development. Too many dragons and the proto-demi-humans would never have a chance to flourish, and too few and they would die out long before they could ever be a threat in the game.

That's enough for now. Thoughts?

i would cast dragons as interdimensional interlopers. Entirely outside the "magical ecosystem" you describe. They travel interdimensionally with some difficulty--explaining their relative rarity--and would i suppose have the aberration type applied to them.

 

[Reynard]

i would cast dragons as interdimensional interlopers. Entirely outside the "magical ecosystem" you describe. They travel interdimensionally with some difficulty--explaining their relative rarity--and would i suppose have the aberration type applied to them.

Part of the idea, though, is to eliminate the idea of extra-planar elements, as they break the "evolutionary" aspect pretty succinctly. For example, aberrations are better served as a totally divergent, underdark evolutionary line/system that eventually breaks through to the surface.

 

[Archimedes314]

Part of the idea, though, is to eliminate the idea of extra-planar elements, as they break the "evolutionary" aspect pretty succinctly. For example, aberrations are better served as a totally divergent, underdark evolutionary line/system that eventually breaks through to the surface.

I wouldn't say extraplanar creatures are anathema to the concept of an evolutionary fantasy world. To put it in scientific terms, think of it like the theory of island biogeography, only on a fantastically large scale. If we assume that there are naturally occurring (but rare) planar breaches (and that the laws of reality on the different planes are similar enough) then the occasional interloper making its way into this world (it needs a name, or at least a working name) is not outside the realm of possibility. Hell, even life on our own earth may have been seeded from extraterrestrial sources (look up panspermia).

 

[Tonguez]

Okay accepting that humans are Homo Sapiens and that most demi-humans are himinids this is easy to reconstruct

We already know that Homo Sapiens lived alongside both Neanderthals (Orcs), Homo Erectus and Homo Floresiensis (the 'hobbit' found in Indonesia - a dwarfed homo erectus population) which gives us four base species to work with.

It is suggested that Homo Erectus were descended from Australopithecus and not directly ancestral to Humans (the first Human ancestor being Homo Habilis) thus explaining why some humanoids don't produce viable half-breeds. On that basis I'd see Paranthropus as ancestral to Dwarfs

We can add in Gigantipethicus as the progenitor of Ogres and Hill Giants
The other giant species arising due to the effects of elemental magic - exactly how that mechanism works I'm not sure

and in my own indulgence have Goblins evolve from Amphibians (swampdwellers) and I'd go as far to to evolve elfs from Proto-avian saurians (possibly Troodon)

Magic is a fundamental aspect of nature, the fifth fundamental force, if you will.

I once defined magic as a fundamental force which maintained the speration (and link) between dimensions/planes. This places the planes within the natural limits of your 'science' and allows for extreme 'magical' divergent evolution. The same theory posits that what were called gods and Fey were in fact the inhabitants of other dimensions who have had historic contact with humanoids.

Perhaps dragons were once the apex predators of a pre-mammalian world analagous to the age of dinosaurs, but managed to survive the great mass extinction -- enough to continue on without being so prevalent as to hinder the other species' development.

Personally I'd rule that the Mass extinction did not occur and that many monsters are evolved from earlier saurian and therapsid ancestors. Griffons, Gorgons, Manticore and many other beasts work well as Therapsids.

Dragons themselves are evolved pelycosaurs who started off as 3 mt long creatures with a double sail on there backs. SOmehow they migrated to another dimension suffused with magic and were able to grow to massive size, develop sentience and the back sails developed into wings

(The progenitor species of Dragons was also ancestral to Griffons and Manticores)

 

[freyar]

I wouldn't say extraplanar creatures are anathema to the concept of an evolutionary fantasy world. To put it in scientific terms, think of it like the theory of island biogeography, only on a fantastically large scale. If we assume that there are naturally occurring (but rare) planar breaches (and that the laws of reality on the different planes are similar enough) then the occasional interloper making its way into this world (it needs a name, or at least a working name) is not outside the realm of possibility. Hell, even life on our own earth may have been seeded from extraterrestrial sources (look up panspermia).

Very true, though I expect that the OP wants a single, self-contained evolutionary game world outside the usual "cosmology" of D&D (or variants thereof). As far as the OP's question about dragons, maybe the reptilian-dominant ecosystem survived on one continent (heh, a large one), and dragons only rarely make it over to the mammalian-dominant continent. You'd just need a clever enough extinction history.

Another issue to consider is the role of clerics; other divine casters are probably easier, but you probably want to think about that.

 

[Tonguez]

If dragons are highly territorial and natural aggressive to each other then would they not control their own population size? (ie by killing each other)

 

[Umbran]

Another issue to consider is the role of clerics; other divine casters are probably easier, but you probably want to think about that.

The OP says, "no gods or divine intervention". This, however, has nothing to say about religion. The question is whether there are different forms of magic anyway...

 

[WayneLigon]

I've never really assumed a 'the gods did it' approach to world-building nor have I ever subscribed to the idea that all Temperate Hills everywhere contain Hobgoblins (or whatever). so most of the D&D speciation already works for me if we assume an evolutionary approach.

Multiple intelligent species might work best if the world has smaller continents so we can look to Australia as a model; elves originally come from this one small island chain to Hell and gone across the ocean and really only have 'colonies' in the main campaign area. Dwarves come from that isolated northen ice-hell continent that's only half myth. They and other species never had to compete with anyone else for space or resources before.

 

[Savage Wombat]

i would cast dragons as interdimensional interlopers. Entirely outside the "magical ecosystem" you describe. They travel interdimensionally with some difficulty--explaining their relative rarity--and would i suppose have the aberration type applied to them.

Nah, use the Discovery Channel version of dragons - they're ancient dinosaur decendants that were on the edge of extinction when Men arrived. They all breathe fire, but some are flier-specialized, and some swim-specialized.