Female gamers: Weal or woe?

shieldheart · 11th July 2008, 08:49 PM

Having played d&d almost exclusively with an all male group, the concept of a female gamer is somewhat foreign to me. In the dozen or so sessions I've played with female players, I've found that female gamers, by virtue of their gender alone, change the gameplay experience dramatically.

Most of the time it's a headache.

Hear me out now, I've got nothing against female players. They're awesome and everything. The problem arises mostly with the male players whenever there's a female present. They almost always act differently. Some guys will hold back from being their normal selves and restrain themselves from cracking potentially offensive jokes where they otherwise wouldn't hesitate. Some guys will go out of their way to try to impress the female, in game or otherwise. I've wanted to pull out my hair during sessions where guys spent the entire 3 hours chatting up the girl, distracting her and everyone else from the session and holding it up.

Has anyone else had similar experiences? How do you deal with it? I want to include a few female friends into my gaming sessions but I don't want the atmosphere of the group to change.

C.W.Richeson · 11th July 2008, 08:54 PM

I can't say that I have. I've played in mostly female groups, mostly male groups, and briefly in an all male group. The only real difference was that there were more female PCs in the groups with more women.

Then again, by far I tend to be playing with married folk and have for some time.

Barastrondo · 11th July 2008, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shieldheart

Hear me out now, I've got nothing against female players. They're awesome and everything. The problem arises mostly with the male players whenever there's a female present.

Should the title of this post not be "Male gamers who are exposed to female gamers: Weal or Woe?"

SavageRobby · 11th July 2008, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shieldheart

Some guys will hold back from being their normal selves and restrain themselves from cracking potentially offensive jokes where they otherwise wouldn't hesitate.

Wow. You haven't been at our table. We might even be worse when the women show up.

Of course, all the womenfolk at our tables (usually 2-3, to the 5-6 guys) are wives/girlfriends, and we're also all social beyond gaming (dinners, holidays, movies, board games, shopping, etc). Also, most of us are mid-to-late 30s and fairly stable, so that might be part of it.

FWIW, our game sessions are much more interesting because of the mixed group (different perspectives, different strengths, different strategies). I also think it helps that we have multiple women, not just one.

Dragonbait · 11th July 2008, 09:05 PM

Welcome to a hobby where many members are socially awkward..

I've been in a lot of groups with at least one female in them.

In recent memory the worst experience was: One guy tried to flirt with one of two potentially new female gamers the entire time. The GM started to assign seating so that he was away from her (he oftne placed me as her shield), but he would move people's things to sit near her and get upset if we told him where to sit. He ended up creeping her out and she stopped coming after the 3rd game.
...We should have booted the guy, really, for being immature and creating an uncomfortable gaming environment.

Another experience is where a new, and veeeery good looking (IMO) female player joined. It went very well, but one player (not the same guy as above) bought her dice, brought her books, food, and a new mini to use for her character nearly every gaming session. It never went beyond puppy love, as far as I know. She eventually left after 6 months due to her school and work schedule eating up her free time.

I had one experience with a group of hack 'n slashers where, when I was talking about my group at the time, they all looked at me and said "You game with GIRLS?!?!"

Grimstaff · 11th July 2008, 09:07 PM

Love female gamers, never noticed any excessive flirting problems.

Maybe your players need to get out more?

I did have an uncomfotable break-up situation in my group once though, which resulted in the male individual being booted from group, unfortunately.

Arnwyn · 11th July 2008, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shieldheart

Hear me out now, I've got nothing against female players. They're awesome and everything. The problem arises mostly with the male players whenever there's a female present. They almost always act differently. Some guys will hold back from being their normal selves and restrain themselves from cracking potentially offensive jokes where they otherwise wouldn't hesitate. Some guys will go out of their way to try to impress the female, in game or otherwise. I've wanted to pull out my hair during sessions where guys spent the entire 3 hours chatting up the girl, distracting her and everyone else from the session and holding it up.

Has anyone else had similar experiences? How do you deal with it? I want to include a few female friends into my gaming sessions but I don't want the atmosphere of the group to change.

How likely are you to invite females to any other of your 'nights out with the (guys)'? Would you and/or your group not hesitate inviting females to a (hypothetical) poker night, for example?

That will help answer the question as to how the atmosphere might change (and it certainly sounds like it will, given the first paragraph above).

Alzrius · 11th July 2008, 09:56 PM

Female gamers: Reinventing the weal.

greatamericanfolkher · 11th July 2008, 09:58 PM

I had one female gamer in my spelljammer game a while back. Other than a rules issue we straightened out early (a bard with no perform) she was a great addition to the group.

Pbartender · 11th July 2008, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SavageRobby

Wow. You haven't been at our table. We might even be worse when the women show up.

Of course, all the womenfolk at our tables (usually 2-3, to the 5-6 guys) are wives/girlfriends, and we're also all social beyond gaming (dinners, holidays, movies, board games, shopping, etc). Also, most of us are mid-to-late 30s and fairly stable, so that might be part of it.

FWIW, our game sessions are much more interesting because of the mixed group (different perspectives, different strengths, different strategies). I also think it helps that we have multiple women, not just one.

Quoted...

Because it describes my own situation so exactly, that I might have written it myself.

Stormborn · 11th July 2008, 10:12 PM

In about 6 years of gaming I have played a grand total of 1 session where women were not present or even the majority. But then at the age of 36 I am the youngest player in the group and so age may account for a lot of it.

Darkwolf71 · 11th July 2008, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimstaff

I did have an uncomfotable break-up situation in my group once though, which resulted in the male individual being booted from group, unfortunately.

Good choice.

Seriously, The Ultimate Gaming Table has 3 female members. 2 wives and 1 girlfriend of male members. There is realy a lot of flirting all around the table, but it's only because we are all good friends.

Hobo · 11th July 2008, 10:22 PM

OK; first of all; if you're going to ask if the concept of playing with girls is "weal or woe" and lean heavily toward the latter; please do all of the rest of us a favor and don't play with any. We don't want to expose them to you.

Or; better yet, do and maybe she'll come post funny stories here about the creepy guys she played with this one time.

Obryn · 11th July 2008, 10:28 PM

Wow, I haven't had an all-male group since high school.

-O

Ruin Explorer · 11th July 2008, 10:31 PM

My experiences are completely dissimilar. My wife is one of my players, and obviously that means there's no "hitting on her" factor (esp. as all but one of the players are married or in long-term relationships), and I've seen absolutely no holding of extremely obscene jokes, unfair allegations regarding character parentage/sexuality/special interests, or what-have-you.

She's a good player, and whilst a little retiring in D&D because she's not entirely sure what she's doing (very experienced MMORPG and CRPG player, not so much P&P RPG), certainly contributes to the game significantly. I don't think there'd be any problem if any other female SOs joined in, either, given we all socialize together and are reasonably comfortable with each other. The only potential problems I could see would be if people who didn't want to play were being brought in.

Basically, it's a matter of familiarity and whether the players themselves are stable. Suddenly add a "hot gurl" to a mostly-teenage, mostly-nerdy group is gonna have an impact, and it won't necessarily be for the better initially. However, unless the players have serious problems, by the second or third session, the impact will be over.

Tbh, whilst ymmv, the main thing to do is to not be playing with scary non-social-skills nerds who are either gynophobes or freaks. So long as that's the case, any disruption will be over soon.

PowerWordDumb · 11th July 2008, 10:32 PM

I avoid tricky problems of gender relations by refusing to play with emotionally and/or socially underdeveloped 'people'.

Choose your companions wisely and a fellow gamer's race/sex/religion/whatever just don't come into it.

Unless they're furries. Those we destroy on sight.

Kamikaze Midget · 11th July 2008, 10:36 PM

Female Gamers: Woot!

While I can kind of understand that some D&D groups have a sort of "guys poker night" vibe and have nothing against that, I myself have never had a real need for that. I've DMed for girls-only groups and mixed groups, and any relationship issues (even between the gals of the girls-only group) have been left at the door long before we enter the fantasy world. That might just be because the ones I play with are mature enough to handle the opposite gender without getting all funny in the head.

But I do totally understand that some D&D groups are guy-exclusive in the same way that a poker night of fantasy football league are -- it's a guy-bonding time. There's nothing wrong with that, really. It's not what I D&D for, but whatevs, I'm not going to sit here and judge you as a creepo for it.

Insight · 11th July 2008, 10:37 PM

I'm not sure the thread title (and the OP) looks at the situation from the proper perspective. Why is the question framed on female gamers? Isn't the problem with socially immature male gamers vs. socially mature male gamers?

Anyway, I expect this thread to soon be mired in bickering and thus closed, which will be too bad, considering this is a topic worthy of discussion.

Obryn · 11th July 2008, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWordDumb

I avoid tricky problems of gender relations by refusing to play with emotionally and/or socially underdeveloped 'people'.

Well, I was going to ask how old his group was and/or if it's full of virgins.

If they're young & naive - which is my guess, based on the thread title - then yeah, it's a hugely different kind of social dynamic. I don't expect high-schoolers to be as emotionally mature as adults.

-O

Philotomy Jurament · 11th July 2008, 11:00 PM

When I first started gaming, it was almost exclusively boys (although my sister played a few times, and there was a girl on my street that liked playing, too). That changed in high school and college, with the introduction of girlfriends into the group. Since then, and continuing into the "married with children" phase, I don't think I've ever had a group that didn't include members of both sexes.

Edit - I've never really considered a "guys poker night" game. I wouldn't want to give up the regular heterogeneous group, but I bet an all-male game would have a different vibe.