4e / GSL Thunderspire Labyrinth

[LostSoul]

Originally Posted by Plane Sailing

I think that the module as written relies somewhat too much on a railroad between the main encounter areas, which is a shame - it would have been stronger if it had been written so that the three main areas could be tackled in any order IMO, and if there were stronger links between BBEG's.

I agree that the links between the module areas are weak, and that the main bad guy appears out of nowhere. That's why I made him the uncle of one of the PCs and had the duergar offer to employ the PCs.

But a railroad? How are you running the random encounters? I've used a lot of them, and they all have links to more adventures. We've been playing Thunderspire since the beginning of October (every other week) and the PCs just now got to the Horned Hold because of the open nature of the module.

(The PCs just got their asses handed to them by Murkelmor, even though they went through the back entrance - where they were not expected. It was an interesting choice they made; head to the back entrance and face a greater chance of random encounters, or take the quick route where they are expecting you but run a lower chance of random encounters. It turned out that the random encounter they ran into sapped them of too many resources to handle the Horned Hold.)

[Plane Sailing]

Originally Posted by LostSoul

But a railroad? How are you running the random encounters? I've used a lot of them, and they all have links to more adventures. We've bee

That's why I said "railroad between the main encounter areas". Not "the whole thing is a railroad".

The random encounters and the side trek NPCs are the saving grace for the module IMO. Watch out for the gelatinous cube plus wraiths one though - that is a killer!

[ExploderWizard]

Originally Posted by Jack99

That's because to the Ordinators, everyone is a minion!

And what sweet power that would be!

Overlords Proclamation
Standard Action
Daily Level ?? Close burst 10
Int vs Will

Hit: Targets hit by the overlords proclamation are reduced to minion status in relation to you. The effect lasts a number of rounds equal to your CHA modifier (save ends).

Miss: The target finds a "kick me" sign plastered to its back, otherwise no effect.

[Chaldfont]

Last night's game was great. We finished up the last encounter in the Chamber of Eyes. Our ranger used Thunder Tusk Boar Strike on a table the bad guys were using for cover and flipped it over their heads. I had some bad guys shove a table at the warforged fighter only to have the fighter hack it in two with his greataxe in one round (he used an action point to hit it again).

Here's how they dealt with the trading post. The wizard went in and conned the duergar into thinking she was looking to buy a slave or two for, as she put it, certain physical exertions. She got them to give her a map and a letter of introduction to take to the Horned Hold. She then dressed up the ranger as a slave with a dog collar and managed to talk her way into the first stronghold before the heroes drew their weapons and attacked.

As far as railroading and such: I always modify published adventures to fit into my campaign. The player characters had already been pursuing an evil wizard and I just slotted him right into Paldemar's role.

[Nebulous]

I had planned to run this right after KotS, but i started doing a homebrew instead. I haven't read the module very closely, but in general i hear very good things about it. I will definitely need to link it to KotS better. Having Kalarel in allegiance with the bad guys in the labyrinth (maybe some demon god thing) would work well. I'll just keep scouring these threads until i see someone's idea that works for me.

[LostSoul]

Originally Posted by Plane Sailing

That's why I said "railroad between the main encounter areas". Not "the whole thing is a railroad".

I misread you! Sorry about that!

Originally Posted by Plane Sailing

The random encounters and the side trek NPCs are the saving grace for the module IMO. Watch out for the gelatinous cube plus wraiths one though - that is a killer!

That is a very cool encounter. I like the fact that the wraiths are hanging around the cube - since they are insubstantial the cube can't really hurt them, doing at most 5 damage, and they Regenerate 5 each turn anyway.

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I just picked it up and gave it a quick scan today. It looks promising -- the general Labyrinth setting and the Seven-Pillared Hall look to be great fodder for linking to a range of other adventures (For example ... a band of beaten-down dwarves arrive from a long way off, revealing that their home has been overrun by duergar. Cue internal strife and politics, and the party can head out on a side trek to my favorite 3E adventure, Forge of Fury)! Then there's the political potential inherent in the Mages ...). Some of the random encounters are pretty clever, too.

The final encounter looks like a real biatch for five 6th-levels, though.

Anyone find it odd that the adventure introduces monsters that should be in the MM (duergar)? Wonder if they'll show up in MMII?

[MacMathan]

Has anyone had trouble with the Murklemor fight in the Horned Hold?

It is turning out pretty grim since the two rooms easily get combined into one encounter.

[Obryn]

Originally Posted by MacMathan

Has anyone had trouble with the Murklemor fight in the Horned Hold?

It is turning out pretty grim since the two rooms easily get combined into one encounter.

That whole citadel basically turned into one big encounter in my game.

-O

[Skallgrim]

I just started running it, but I'm very excited about how it is slotting into my own version of Fallcrest and the PC's backstory:

The Tiefling Wizard is a member of House Naerumar, and was asked by his father, Orest Naerumar, to deliver the tiefling blade to Gendar the drow. He became an "adventurer" to encourage people to view the tieflings as more heroic and less sinister, and now he's discovering that his father has business relations with drow?


The tiefling also doesn't know that his former girlfriend, the younger sister of the female Tiefling running the Azaer business in Fallcrest is now running the Azaer business in the Seven Pillared Hall. The other party members have been there, but none of them know her. He knows her, but hasn't entered the business. He broke off their relationship abruptly after a disconcerting arcane experience caused him to question his life, and she resents it (as he never shared this with her). This is also a source of friction between him and his father, and between him and House Azaer, as they had hoped for a closer mercantile relationship as a result of a marriage.


The elf is adamantly opposed to any dealings with the drow, as he feels they are all slavers and evil. Of course, the drow they are dealing with is actually not evil (just unaligned).

The elf is also the only survivor of a small village razed by goblins and hobgoblins. He still doesn't realize that the goblins of the area were egged on and assisted by the Bloodreavers to gain more slaves. His older brother was one of the slaves captured, and he will discover his signet ring in one of the "random" encounters (as his brother escaped captivity, but did so on his own, and perished in the dark of the Labyrinth). This could embitter the elf against the hobgoblins and duergar further, or possibly help him to become more open and trusting with his own companions (as his brother would have survived if he had not struck out on his own, possibly).

The tiefling wizard was also originally secretly training to be a warlock, but was frightened by what he encountered, which is why he was a wizard multiclassing a warlock power, and not a warlock. He still doesn't realize that what he encountered was an avatar of Vecna, and until he can overcome his shame and secrecy and share his "sordid" beginnings with his friends, Vecna still has a hold on his soul (despite retraining out of the Warlock power). If he hasn't done this by the final encounters, he will actually begin having the dreams about seeking out the Pyramid of Power.

The halfing rogue, a member of the Swiftwater clan in Fallcrest, is the only unaligned party member. She is going to have a great deal of opportunity to make decisions about her "unalignment" in the Seven Pillared Hall. Will she steadfastly support her friends (moving her more toward the Good Alignment), or make decisions and allegiances based on her own self interest (which might cause conflict with the party)?

The elf will also have opportunities for both revenge againt Torog and the slavers who captured his kinfolk, and a chance to see how the mighty minotaur empire fell through their own embrace of their darker nature and emotions. He can see how the minotaurs turned away from their greatness to embrace their bestial side.

I also really, really like how many of the adventures are more open-ended. Do you find the Horned Hold by entering the duergar trading post and attacking, or do you negotiate, or do you let your rogue sneak in and rifle the desk? Maybe you just bribe Gendar to help you, or wander around the Labyrinth hoping for the best.

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Originally Posted by Obryn

That whole citadel basically turned into one big encounter in my game.

-O

For me, that happened in the fight in the Chamber of Eyes - one of the Goblin Sharpshooter escaped and alerts the neighboring room. That was a very very very hard encounter, taking a long time and beyond immensely enjoyable. The players described it as the best encounter yet. The most difficult aspect here was that the PCs had already spend most of their encounter powers and had only the few dailies a 5th or 6th level group has... But the dailies definitely made a big difference.

For a part of the campaign, the group only consisted of 4 characters, but I didn't adjust the encounters much, which resulted in them having a higher level then normal. We have now decided to add one additional player controlled character to the mix, but the PCs went into Thunderspire Labyrinth with level 5 or so. Every attempt for "compensation" typically leads to more XP and even faster level gains, so I think I use a different approach more often then not - just combine two lower level encounters into one bigger. Probably has the unfortunate side effect of shorter adventuring days, but the alternative are combats that are just too easy, I am afraid.

[Chaldfont]

I'm preparing for my next session of TL. I started to get concerned about the amount of treasure in the adventure. So I added everything up.

It comes up about right, although the gold count is a bit high (but within ~1000 gp). I expect not every party will take all the quests or find all of the hidden treasure, though. There are a total of about 13 magic items ranging from 5th to 10th level. I say about, because I'm not counting one that I can't find in the PHB (dwarven greaves).

My group is about to take on the last 2/3 of the Horned Hall. I'm sure I'll have a good story for you later this week.

[Evilhalfling]

Well my group seems to be committed to exploring the Well of Demons. They are looking for a companion who vanished leaving (blackfang) gnoll bodies behind. following the rumors of gnolls has led them to the well,instead of Horned Hold.

I dropped the xp of the encounters to fit a 3 person party, but the party recruited Darkseeker and Surina, and are going in at 5th level. I'm having difficulty weighing encounters for 3 PCs and 2 NPCs. The encounter with wandering Gnolls that was supposed to be scary wasn't that hard with only 2 PCs becoming bloodied, only for a round each.


They suspect that Darkseeker is a wererat. As they know that someone in the seven pillared hall has a wererat servant. They haven't even seen him heal! he has only been injured once and the Warlord tossed out a party heal the round afterward. I may make him a wererat, with a split personality, the human never acknowledging that he is a lycanthrope. The Wererat side would be a spy for Pademar.

Surina has picked up a spear and changed out a Avernian Eruption for Armor of Agathys. (the party has 2 PC strikers & needed more front line) She Buffy'ied the ghoul in the first room of the well, stabbing with two crits and killing it. I had it burst into flame after she impaled it and leave behind a pile of dust

[Evilhalfling]

Decision on Darkseeker. He is a wererat, with his submerged personality controlled by Padmars other agents.

Darkseeker was sure that one of the exits to the room led to his doom, and urged the party against following the trail. They ignored him, and fought the gnolls with the Pig, setting fire to the hay and luring the hyena's out, cutting the numbers. The gnolls have yet to get more than 1 pack attack in, reduced numbers and splits between melee and huntmasters have seen to that.
Surina used firebolt to set the hay on fire, then the PCs traded ranged attacks with the archers, trying to cut the boars chain with a +2 thrown dagger or + 2 throwing axe. They weakened it and the boar made a strength check but botched it, and the combat was over shortly afterward.

Then into the shrine, they stood outside the leaders room and discussed things. the leader started making noises to lure them in, then got fed out and came out - Suprising the heck out of the PCs by complaining that they were taking too long. The Barlarga was a blast, beating the stuffing out of the rogue (0 healing surges) forcing two death saves (both passed) and making the party use the belt of sacrifice! The others were only mildly wounded. Their was only one tiefling - who happened to be MargeRAT Dark - Darkseekers ex-wife! (and agent of Padmar) The party had actually run into her before, when they were 3rd level, and she was 6th She intimidated her way out of a bar-fight they were throwing. Darkseeker declares that his DOOM has come and meekly takes her side in the following discussion. The two of them leave, giving the party a job offer from Padmar.

On the way out the party realizes that the Dire boar has been carefully groomed, although not lately and Surina (streetwise +10) mentions the Dwarves in the hall. Then party argues bout the best way to get a reward for the Boar. I interrupted with the quasit who wants to trade blood for answers - 1 surge means alot when the party has one each remaining.
their questions :
Is our friend here? A. no but his reflection is he is trapped in the hall of mirrors
Who is your master? A. I serve the one who is two who opposes the two that rule here: Demegorgon,- possibly misinterpreted as the apprentices of Sulruun.
How can your master be defeated? A. Seek out his immortal enemies (per savage tide adventure path)
for answering the third question, the untouchable quasit will shortly be killed. It was outside the boundaries of the riddles, but since the answer came easily to mind... They will be getting xp for it.

They are taking the boar back to the hall, with 4 surges between them. Should be fun. We are also adding a new player- a dwarf paladin, a nice tie too returning the Boar.
Since the party left, their friend will be transferred to the inner chamber, next week its finish or he get sacrificed.

[Evilhalfling]

I tried to compress 3 tests and the fight with the guardian to a single session.
it lasted 5:30 -130 am.

In the Hall of mirrors they lost a character to the opening trap. They used the curtains draped over their heads, to cross the chamber. They all grouped up again before opening the 2nd curtain. The curtains got shredded in the first skeleton explosion. The funniest bit was when the ranger headbutted a teleport mirror. Thus provoking the OA, so he could return to the battle.

They hit the chamber of Blood next, and the dwarf failed a jump and spent several rounds in trying unsuccessfully to climb out onto the statue base. I changed out the carnage demons for Dretch (HR Brute 4). They were great with a special ability which stopped anyone next to them from concentrating enough to get their normal minor action. This prevented marking, paladin challenges and one PC from drawing weapons. I really enjoyed making a low whine when ever a PC was taking actions adjacent to one of them.

the Sure Climbing feat (climb at normal speed) made item retrieval easy once the demons were killed off.
hmm - maybe I hand waved too much at the end, ah well on to the next -

The Howling pillars featured more Dretch! this time as minions.
The pillars were mostly a minor problem, and actually helped set the rogue for flanking once. The party was very frightened of the BarLarga, an earlier one nearling having killed the rogue.
The pillars spat out a new minion dretch each round, and the ranger just shot most of them with the spitting cobra stance.

The Guardian:

The party figured out the pools, and everyone had poison resistance for the test. The traps were mostly ineffective, the crossbow turrets hit twice, the fear projectors once, the elemental vortex twice, and the skeletons twice. Mostly the party concentrated around the opening door. I decided that the skeletons could move 1 each round, but not more than 1 space from starting potions. otherwise they would have made one attack the entire battle. The party wasted a large number of attacks on them - eventually overcoming the threshold 7 times. when the dragon finally breathed on them, they were reduced to 0 Attack bonus and quit even trying to attack.

The Dragon got hit with walking wounded, which really limited its mobility, and it was only able to damage 2 party members seriously. The Doom Sphere was avoided carefully, and made only a single attack the entire battle. It was a huge tactical concern for both dragon and PCs. Both sides spent a lot of time trying to force others into bad positions. It was the centerpiece of the battle.

They had the dragon past bloodied after 10 rounds, but I felt the players would have felt robbed of the kill if it just vanished. So I extended the fight to 14 rounds, and they finally killed it, and took the head as a trophy.

2 problems with the ball: I moved it 12 each round instead of 24. Secondly it became very predictable, as the track divided evenly by 12. So it always stopped at the same place. Increasing the speed to 13 would have added more randomness - although realizing it was taking double moves each round might have made the speed so fast that this would matter less.

The party loved the adventure, even with the grind at the end.

[Evilhalfling]

After last session I ran a one shot for 2 players, who were kidnapped by ghosts from the well of demons. The Gnoll leader had already left the well, so the encounter with the guardian served as the end of the chapter. The party was reunited with a companion who had been captured by the blackfangs back at level 3.

Players have come and gone, the current party is:
Drett Waters - Elf rogue 6 (brutal)
Krysta Waters - Tiefling Warlord 6 (inspiring)
Aiden Deepgem- Dwarf Paladin 6 (god of fire, Avenging)
Griz Waters - Dragonborn Fighter 6 (2-handed style) (rescued from gnolls)
Surina - Dragonborn NPC (skirmisher 6)

The Test of Bapohet opens a door? no other offer of reward or effects of being the champions of a demonlord. Also 4 encounters and a level gain w/o treasure?
So I added a BarLarga who showed up and offered the party direct power if they would swear to act as Bapohets agents. When this was refused he offered a choice of three rewards: his own services for 1 task, a pile of gold (that was already hidden in temple) or a bag that he promised would help the party produce more "Vengeance and Gore" which was something the Demon lord and the party could agree with. They took the bag. It had Strikebacks that worked daily, and a horned helm.

They decided not to followup on the gnoll tribe for vengeance, and instead made plans to attempt to retrieve their other friend (Lisa Waters) from the Horned Hold.

[Evilhalfling]

The Dwarf Paladin was absent. The others continued on to the Horned Hold.

The rougue got close enough to overhear the orcs arguing about how far a something could move "look I rolled a seven, and if I move like this I can reach him." "Nuh uh"

To get in they tried a "wounded bird" technique, and the PC spent an action point after her first bluff was a bad roll. So the Orcs came out, and the rest of the party charged. As usual a knights move and elven battle armor speed boost was enough to catch the guy who went for help.

Exploring the tower, they found a mug on the lip of the well labeled "World's Best Smith" this was promptly stolen. They ganked the smith, only allowing him a single action before he went down. One of the scouts made a heal check to restore him to combat, and the wounded, crawling smith then put on a much better showing. The warlord got double teamed by scouts and failed 2 death saves before being restored.

The Party continued onto the dining hall, and attacked from the main doors, sending Surina to the kitchen entrance to distract from the main attack. They got slaves to open doors. Surina's distraction was to go in shirtless "Dragonboobs confuse everyone, why not dwarves?"

The battle was fierce with the rogue pinned in the fireplace by an expanded Duegar. One scout got away to alert the next tower. The party set fire to the mindflayer 'zombie' before going any further. They went in the back way but still had go pass the turrets, and prepared Duegar. The Duegar had good tactics, and got a lot of crits, much of the party was bloodied, and out of surges as the Duegar opened the door with the orcs. Really how can these encounters not be chained? they are very close together, and both are units of Guards. By this time it was late IRL and everyones dice went cold, no crits from the monsters, lots of 1's from the PCs. All dailies and encounters were gone. Aside from a bit of humor where the orcs ran out of things to throw, and were encouraged to throw burning sticks at the Tiefling, it was just a long fight.

The PCs retreated, only 2 encounters remaining. I'm not sure how the limited number of enemies will react. It could be a cakewalk if the paladin player rejoins PCs. If the remaining dwarves find their camp first, the dwarves might win. But the fight will lack all the fun terrain of the final two rooms.

One note - there is a shooting gallery overlooking the first bridge - an alerted defense would probably put a few archers or watchers on it

[mshea]

One trick I plan to use as I run my group through Trollhaunt is to drop in seeds of "Demon Queen's Enclave" throughout. It helps to know what the next adventure is so you can bind them together better. I had Pyramid of Shadow references in the last couple of battles of the Thunderspire. Inside the Pyramid, I didn't have much of a chance to tie it together - although I just realized, typing this, that I would have had a great opportunity in the POS library to write up a future-scenario of the return of Vardar and the Troll empire under Skalmad. Crap.

[Soel]

Originally Posted by Evilhalfling

I changed out the carnage demons for Dretch (HR Brute 4). They were great with a special ability which stopped anyone next to them from concentrating enough to get their normal minor action. This prevented marking, paladin challenges and one PC from drawing weapons. I really enjoyed making a low whine when ever a PC was taking actions adjacent to one of them.

2 problems with the ball: I moved it 12 each round instead of 24. Secondly it became very predictable, as the track divided evenly by 12. So it always stopped at the same place. Increasing the speed to 13 would have added more randomness - although realizing it was taking double moves each round might have made the speed so fast that this would matter less.

I, too made a lot of changes to this adv. I used Nashrou (3.5 MM 4) and Bulezau (2e Planescape) that I converted to 4e intead of the boring carnage demons.

I changed the guardian into a Kasthigur (3.5 MM 5) pretty much with minor mechanical changes. I changed the doomsphere into a sphere of ruined bodies (from a 3e Dungeon mag) that moved 24 (12 is indeed too predictable) and when it rolled over opponents, it knocked them prone on a miss, and when it hit them, it gained a secondary attack to grab them, giving them ongoing 10 damage while grabbed. The sphere moved 1 less square per grabbed opponent.

BTW, I'd love to see your dretch conversion!

[Evilhalfling]

Dretch Level 4 Brute
Small elemental humanoid (demon)
initiative: +4 ; Perception +3
Aura of Disgust: (aura 1) non-demon living creatures lose 1 minor action while in the aura.
Hp: 64, bloodied 32
AC: 16, Fort 18, Ref 16, Will 12
Resist: 5 variable (1/encounter)
Speed: 6
Bite (standard, at will) +7 v AC (1d10+4)

Align: CE ; Languages: Abyssal
Str 18 Dex 14 Wis 12
Con 14 Int 05 Chr 08

Dretch are frequently described as bad-smelling, pumpkin-shaped demons on spindly legs. They tend to charge enemies (non-dretch) and then get as close to as many of them as possible. Like stinky cats they will rub up against people who dislike them.
The Aura of Disgust is a combination of their constant telepathic whine and hideous stench.
As level 7 minions they use level 7 skirmisher defaults, and deal 5 damage.


Id like to see your Bulezau conversion - I have 3.5 stats from Dragons Demonomicon article, and was considering converting them.