Skill Challenge: Survive a night in the haunted dungeon

[pukunui]

Hi all,

I'm running KotS at the moment and the PCs have holed themselves up in Balgron the Fat's lair, having cleared out all the goblins but allowing Balgron himself to escape. They've barricaded both the main doors and the secret door. Unfortunately, it's only been a few hours since their last extended rest, so they're going to have to hang out in there for about 24 hours before they can get the benefit of another one.

I was just going to dock them some healing surges or something to show that spending the night in the dungeon is a Bad Idea, but someone suggested that I turn it into a Skill Challenge instead.

So ...

Skill Challenge: Survive a night in the haunted dungeon.

Endurance: tough it out (moderate DC?)
Religion: use prayer or religious rite to ward off evil spirits (one use only; moderate DC?)
Arcana: use some arcane ritual to ward off evil spirits (one use only; hard DC?)
History: recall a story of a mighty hero from the past who survived a night in a dungeon (grants a +2 morale bonus to next check made by any character; easy or moderate DC?)

Success: XP, benefits of an extended rest
Failure: No/half XP? Fail to gain all healing surges and/or hit points (only go up to half? 3/4?)


There are five PCs, all level 2. I'm thinking this should be a Complexity 1 skill challenge, maybe level 2 since there going to be hanging around in one place for such a long time.

Please help me flesh this thing out. I've got two weeks before the next session, and we'll be kicking it off with this, so I'll need to have it sorted out by then. The main thing I need help with is figuring out the price of failure.


By the way, the PCs will probably get attacked by a hobgoblin patrol led by Balgron during the 24 hour period, but whether or not the hobs can get through the barricades or not or whether they just wait outside till the PCs are fully rested remains to be seen.


Cheers,
Jonathan

 

[Simon Atavax]

Hi all,

I'm running KotS at the moment and the PCs have holed themselves up in Balgron the Fat's lair, having cleared out all the goblins but allowing Balgron himself to escape. They've barricaded both the main doors and the secret door. Unfortunately, it's only been a few hours since their last extended rest, so they're going to have to hang out in there for about 24 hours before they can get the benefit of another one.

I was just going to dock them some healing surges or something to show that spending the night in the dungeon is a Bad Idea, but someone suggested that I turn it into a Skill Challenge instead.

First of all, let me just say that I think your idea, overall, is very cool. I support it.

But at the same time, the "old school" part of me says, "If the dungeon is haunted, why not just have a few ghosts attack the PCs or something in actual combat encounters?"

 

[pukunui]

First of all, let me just say that I think your idea, overall, is very cool. I support it.

But at the same time, the "old school" part of me says, "If the dungeon is haunted, why not just have a few ghosts attack the PCs or something in actual combat encounters?"

Cos it's only haunted in a residual way. There's sort of a background feeling of unease and people get spinetingling shivers and hear far-off noises and see things out of the corners of their eyes, but there aren't really any ghosts. Plenty of zombies and skeletons and things like that, but they haven't encountered those yet.

Also, they're resting in a place that was until very recently inhabited by goblins, and I somehow doubt the goblins would've been living there if there were malicious ghosts about ...

But thanks anyway for the suggestion!

 

[Cryptos]

Well, the most obvious penalty for failure would be that they don't get the benefits of an extended rest. The spooks move things around, make noises, and bang things together, or cause nightmares to the extent where the PCs don't get a rest.

In terms of the actual challenge, I don't like the "official" way that skill challenges are done. I like the threshold of successes and failures, but I don't like having each challenge have a narrow set of skills with a narrower set of explanations of how those skills will be used. It feels like skill-based railroading to me.

I think it's more interesting to present a challenge, and then have the PCs decide which skills they are going to use, and explain how those will work toward accomplishing the goal.

I don't like saying "here are the four skills you have to use" and then when the PC uses them you tell them what they did with those four skills. It reduces the skill challenge to pure dice-rolling with predetermined outcomes.

I'd rather see players say, "I'm going to use dungeoneering because I think that I can (explanation follows)...." than see them say, "Ok, my diplomacy is high, so out of the four possible actions I can take I'll choose the 'convince the ghost to leave us alone' option."

 

[Ed_Laprade]

If the Hobs are going to attack I'd say that success = they don't get throught the barricade and go set up an ambush or make other plans. Failure = they get through the barricade and the PCs have to fight them as is.

 

[Benimoto]

I love the idea. My personal style these days when running skill challenges veers away from having specific skills picked out ahead of time, and more towards just picking high/moderate/low DCs based on how plausible the player's description of the action strikes me, but you should go with what works.

I would say that an appropriate penalty for failure would be the failure to regain 1-2 healing surges, or perhaps even failure to regain one of the character's daily powers. I think that for most skill challenges, the penalties for failure should not be any more drastic than when a battle gets pretty tough for the characters, as opposed to going well.

You might consider broadening the scope of the challenge to include regular monster threats in addition to the haunted nature of the dungeon. Some other skills in that vein might be Bluff, in sort of a disguise role (making the suspicious seem ordinary), Dungeoneering, in order to predict monster activity cycles, Perception, for keeping a lookout, or Stealth, in order to actively hide from patrols.

 

[pukunui]

Well, the most obvious penalty for failure would be that they don't get the benefits of an extended rest. The spooks move things around, make noises, and bang things together, or cause nightmares to the extent where the PCs don't get a rest.

Right.

In terms of the actual challenge, I don't like the "official" way that skill challenges are done. I like the threshold of successes and failures, but I don't like having each challenge have a narrow set of skills with a narrower set of explanations of how those skills will be used. It feels like skill-based railroading to me.

I think it's more interesting to present a challenge, and then have the PCs decide which skills they are going to use, and explain how those will work toward accomplishing the goal.

I don't like saying "here are the four skills you have to use" and then when the PC uses them you tell them what they did with those four skills. It reduces the skill challenge to pure dice-rolling with predetermined outcomes.

I wasn't planning on saying that. I actually agree with you ... but I still think it's useful for me as DM to at least think of the most obvious skill uses and have an idea of how easy or hard it should be. But I'll definitely just leave it to the players to figure out what to do.

I'd rather see players say, "I'm going to use dungeoneering because I think that I can (explanation follows)...." than see them say, "Ok, my diplomacy is high, so out of the four possible actions I can take I'll choose the 'convince the ghost to leave us alone' option."

Yes.

If the Hobs are going to attack I'd say that success = they don't get throught the barricade and go set up an ambush or make other plans. Failure = they get through the barricade and the PCs have to fight them as is.

Well actually the hobs attacking was separate from the skill challenge ... but I suppose I could initially make that a skill challenge as well!

I love the idea. My personal style these days when running skill challenges veers away from having specific skills picked out ahead of time, and more towards just picking high/moderate/low DCs based on how plausible the player's description of the action strikes me, but you should go with what works.

Yes. See above.

I would say that an appropriate penalty for failure would be the failure to regain 1-2 healing surges, or perhaps even failure to regain one of the character's daily powers. I think that for most skill challenges, the penalties for failure should not be any more drastic than when a battle gets pretty tough for the characters, as opposed to going well.

1-2 healing surges sounds good to me. I don't want it to be anything too drastic.

You might consider broadening the scope of the challenge to include regular monster threats in addition to the haunted nature of the dungeon. Some other skills in that vein might be Bluff, in sort of a disguise role (making the suspicious seem ordinary), Dungeoneering, in order to predict monster activity cycles, Perception, for keeping a lookout, or Stealth, in order to actively hide from patrols.

I'm perfectly willing to consider other skill uses. As I said, I just want to come up with at least the most obvious things for my own purposes (helps to cut down on winging it on the night).

 

[Cryptos]

Ok, then, to help you out, here's how I would use each skill in this situation if I was presented with the problem and that skill was the highest ranked one on my character sheet:

Arcana: Use the detect magic aspect of the skill to determine what manifestations are merely distracting or scary and which (if any) are strong enough to actually cause harm by measuring their relative power. Possibly try to map out the manifestations to find the "quietest" spot to rest.

Dungeoneering / Perception: To find a spot where the manifestations hold less sway, search the dungeon for secret rooms or alcoves, or just find the place that seems the least disturbed.

Heal / Dungeoneering: Figure out if there is some kind of plant or fungus that will make restful sleep easier without impairing alertness when awakened (healing); find it in the dungeon (dungeoneering.)

History: Try to recall the events that took place here to determine where the haunting would be the strongest / weakest to choose the best resting spot.

Insight: Try to discern the motives of the 'ghosts'... are they protecting some areas but not others? Trying to keep the party away from certain areas, or lead them to others?

Intimidate / Bluff: Try to create the impression that you have the ability to perform some ritual that will wipe out the spirits, and that you will do so if they don't leave you alone.

Religion: Monster Knowledge of the Shadow / Far Realms to determine what sort of manifestation it is, how harmful it is, and how best to deal with it.

Endurance: Try to see if I could use the skill as a 'mind of matter' sort of Concentration, to filter out the distractions and rest.

(Which illustrates perfectly why the: "these are the four skills that work with this skill challenge" concept WotC wound up using sucks, frankly.)

 

[pukunui]

Ok, then, to help you out, here's how I would use each skill in this situation if I was presented with the problem and that skill was the highest ranked one on my character sheet:

Arcana: Use the detect magic aspect of the skill to determine what manifestations are merely distracting or scary and which (if any) are strong enough to actually cause harm by measuring their relative power. Possibly try to map out the manifestations to find the "quietest" spot to rest.

Dungeoneering / Perception: To find a spot where the manifestations hold less sway, search the dungeon for secret rooms or alcoves, or just find the place that seems the least disturbed.

Heal / Dungeoneering: Figure out if there is some kind of plant or fungus that will make restful sleep easier without impairing alertness when awakened (healing); find it in the dungeon (dungeoneering.)

History: Try to recall the events that took place here to determine where the haunting would be the strongest / weakest to choose the best resting spot.

Insight: Try to discern the motives of the 'ghosts'... are they protecting some areas but not others? Trying to keep the party away from certain areas, or lead them to others?

Intimidate / Bluff: Try to create the impression that you have the ability to perform some ritual that will wipe out the spirits, and that you will do so if they don't leave you alone.

Religion: Monster Knowledge of the Shadow / Far Realms to determine what sort of manifestation it is, how harmful it is, and how best to deal with it.

Endurance: Try to see if I could use the skill as a 'mind of matter' sort of Concentration, to filter out the distractions and rest.

(Which illustrates perfectly why the: "these are the four skills that work with this skill challenge" concept WotC wound up using sucks, frankly.)

Cool. Thanks. Unfortunately, the PCs have barricaded themselves up in one room of the dungeon, so I don't think they'll be doing any exploring for dungeon fungi and "safe spots". Good thinking, though.

Also, while I agree with your sentiments that actually telling your players "These skills are the ones you can use and this is what you can do with them" is silly, I do think it's useful in terms of examples of what can be done.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The skill challenge idea is neat. I am not sure if it'S too late, but maybe you could combine "successfully barricaded" and "warding of haunting spirits" in one challenge.

The goals are two-fold:
- Ensure the barricades are safe
- Find enough rest

Success: Barricades Hold, You get the benefits of Extended Rest
Failure Options:
1) Their fears and the Shadowfell influence manifests in a spirit appearing to strike at them (maybe one spirit per PC, each representing his unique fears)
2) The Goblins break through the barricade.

You could even have a "partial failure" scenario - if the PCs get at least half the checks done before failing, only "half" of the encounter happens - if they were better at the spirit-warding stuff, the Goblins break through. If they were good at the barricade stuff, the Goblins are kept at bay but the spirits manifest. If both went way too bad, their fears obviously manifest the moment the Goblins break through.

The trick is setting up the encounters so that they are not automatically deadly. What I am not sure about is how to reward XP. If you really combine barricade & spirit warding together, maybe it should be a complexity 5 challenge. If they fail fully, they gain no XP for the challenge, but they get XP for the encounters. A partial success grants half XP for the challenge, and the encounter will be easier, so it will gain half XP anyway.

You should avoid making the encounter too hard - without daily resources (and low on healing surges), a equal level challenge should be hard enough.

--

Your skill suggestions look good, though for a higher complexity challenge, you probably don'T want to many limitations.
Maybe:
o Arcana (Moderate): Identify the nature of the Shadowfell effects. Can gain only on success, opens up the Hard DC.
o Arcana (Hard): Create a magical warding to reduce the Shadowfell influence. Can be done as often as you'd like.
o Religion (Moderate): Identify the nature of the spiritual energies. Can gain only one success, opens up the Hard DC.
o Religion (Hard): Cast warding prayers for divine aid or soothing the spirits. Can be done as often as you'd like.
o Diplomacy (Moderate): Rally your allies. Can gain only one success.
o Intimidate (Hard): Drive back the spirits or rattle the Goblins so they don't dare to break through. Can be done once.
o Endurance (Moderate): Find rest despite the noises and dreams.
o History (Easy): Tell a tale to motivate your party. Gains no success or failure, but +2 to next check.
o Dungeoneering (Moderate): Identify weak spots in the Barricades. Can gain only one success.
o Dungeoneering (Hard): Repair or close weak spots.
o Thievery or Dungeoneering (Hard): Set up a trap. Can gain only one success. Special: If the challenge fails and the enemies break through, roll Thievery vs Reflex at the first Goblin. On a hit, deal high limited damage (according to level, see DMG 42). (You might want to make this less generic by specifying an area and stuff like that)
o Athletics (Easy): Help reinforcements. +2 on next dungeoneering check, but no success/failure gain.
o Insight (Easy): Get a sense of your allies morale. +2 on next check. No success/failure gain.

Other skills as you see fit. Nature might also allow you to set up a trap.