General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
Here's another one that I'd love to get some feedback about. How do the new classes play along with the core classes and are there any interesting combinations of race and class?
How did they mail them out. Mail..ups..???I didn't get it in US mail today...does that mean I wont have it this weekend
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Originally Posted by Remathilis
Planescape
It should be given special award to Die Vecna, Die: a module that manages to trash no less than THREE different settings (Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Planescape) in the course of one module.
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Originally Posted by Remathilis
Those of you who fretted that monsters have too many hp and fights take too long: meet the barbarian. The ULTIMATE "Lets speed this combat up, I need to whiz" class!
I got mine today! I only had a chance to flip through it a bit. I discovered one bad thing about a B&W 4E book... I kinda like the green/red/gray color coding of the powers. Makes them stand out more. It won't matter after I make power cards for them, but still...
Chris
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Originally Posted by Filcher
Give the kobolds box cutters and an airline ticket and they will bring down the U.S.
One design that I admit to not fond of is the barbarian as a defender. It's been assumed that the WotC version will also go this route (I guess we'll find out for sure on Monday), so I think that choosing a different direction would have made a 3rd party "savage warrior" stand out more.
(personally I think the barbarian concept would work best as a 2H weapon striker that is adept at surviving attacks rather than avoiding them, as the ranger and the rogue are)
As it is, the savage warrior is an unusual defender. Its AC is very poor (light armor, no real reason for Dex or Int other than AC, and the class build advice assigns a low priority to Dex), but to an extent the class wants to get hit to activate the Fury ability. And the Fury ability feels strange - better crits (good), bonus to hit (good), higher AC (...?). I'm guessing the rationale is that the class isn't supposed to be harder to hit (with weapons only) but rather harder to hurt; it works out in a way but looks odd at first sight vs some kind of "resist all" mechanic.
Just downloaded this and Plague. Best $19 I ever spent.
But, is Orc-Blooded now the best (melee) cleric, (melee) ranger, and fighter?
Longtooth shifters have +2 to Str and Wis, and I imagine it would be a rare DM that would allow the APG but for some reason not allow material from the Monster Manual. So my answer would be "Orc-Blooded is no more dominant in those areas than a core MM race, so I don't see a problem." It's also no more dominant than dragonborns are at paladins and inspiring warlords or halfings at artful rogues, elves at ranged rangers, and so forth.
__________________ Gary Hoggatt - www.garyh.net "Such heroic nonsense..."
One design that I admit to not fond of is the barbarian as a defender.
I'm actually not sure if the WotC barbarian is going to be a defender or a striker, honestly.
In either case, yeah, I went back and forth on that a lot, myself. Ultimately, I decided that the barbarian's ability to take all sorts of punishment and keep on going, at least as I envisioned it, was just more appropriate for a defender. And yeah, unlike other defenders, his shtick is less about not being hit and more about not caring that you hit him.
He does have a marking ability, though I admit it's not nearly as prevalent of the paladin's or fighter's. (Part of Savage Charge.) I wanted to see if I could design a solid defender that didn't rely on marks as much. Time will tell if I've succeeded, I guess.
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Originally Posted by DonAdam
One question I haven't seen asked: what happened to the Spellbinder's level 1 daily's?
*blink*
Oh, son of a bitch...
Okay, I have no idea if that was my mistake or a printing error. I'll check my files when I get back home on Saturday and find out. (I have a horrible suspicion it was mine. Let me tell you, there's a reason WotC doesn't assign people to design five classes in rapid succession; your eyes start to bleed...) In either case, I'll have errata on that sent to Joe before the end of the weekend.
I'm actually not sure if the WotC barbarian is going to be a defender or a striker, honestly.
I am hoping striker, as it would be interesting an nice to see the difference the two roles could make to a raging warrior.
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Originally Posted by Mouseferatu
In either case, I'll have errata on that sent to Joe before the end of the weekend.
And here I was about to buy the pdf, I hope you don't mind too much if I hold off a short while . Impatient people could use the Phantom Chasm daily from Dragon 364 for a close-ish? fit.
I got mine today! I only had a chance to flip through it a bit. I discovered one bad thing about a B&W 4E book... I kinda like the green/red/gray color coding of the powers. Makes them stand out more. It won't matter after I make power cards for them, but still...
Chris
That's an interesting point Chris.
With PDF having all sorts of options, that doesn't sound impossible and it sounds like there's some errata that's going to have to be hit anyway. Maybe the old publishers will take that into account.
Well I got it and I am liking it. Especially the monk, I just love his minor attack, a great way to do the strikers extra damage....elf monks as well -great fun speed 8! And as to the barbarian sorry Savage Warrior, I am really interested in seeing how one defends without marking (edit: I mean less reliance on marking)...marking can be annoying in the game so it is nice to see another mechanic.
Anyway do you want us to post errors, queries etc here Mouseferatu? Or email them or something. Just a few we have picked up so far:
1. Savage Charge is not as good as the PHB feat Fast Runner
2. Obfuscating Mist (SB Util 1) does not have a duration.
3. No SB Daily 1st level powers.
4. Troubador Arcane Channel could just be a free action, I think. You can do a free action whenever you want, so you should be able to do it during an allies turn. If not just a free action it needs to be an imm interrupt as a reaction is taken after the action (i.e. the allies power) is totally resolved/finished. However if using it as a free action is not correct an immediate action definitely needs a trigger description.
5. Soothe the savage beast (Tr Daily 1)has the paralysis keyword which does not exist AFAIK.
6. IMO Demon Dance (MA Enc 1) which basically does [w] damage to every creature within 2 squares for the entire encounter is just a little over powered!
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Last edited by mach1.9pants; 4th October 2008 at 01:44 AM..
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Not that they were found, I mean. That they're there at all.
I could fall back on the fact that I've never put together a book quite like this, or that I was new to the system, or that the system was still in flux while I was coming up with some of this, and all that would be true... But it doesn't change the fact that I should have caught/realized a lot of this, and I didn't.
I truly believe this is an excellent resource, and I'm proud of how the book came out. Still, for the errors that did creep in, I certainly apologize.
Not to worry, we gamers are a clever lot and prone to tinkering, so we will be able to fill in any vacancies left in the book.
And since it turns out that "A Dance With Dragons" didn't come out this week afterall, I will be popping into my FLGS to pick this up post haste.
So take heart, a small chunk of my personal finances now belongs to you, and your work will soon be gracing my gaming table.
__________________ "I wanna bite the hand that feeds me...I wanna bite that hand so badly...I wanna make 'em wish they never seen me"
Well if Ari and XRP tells me that they updated the PDF with the different editing problems that have come out I would buy the PDF immediately.
Some of the edits that I see would be:
missing 1st level daily for spellbinder
martial artist weapons
alternate implements
editing the text to make barbarian marking clearer
glib tongue bonus to +4
making the powers color-coded
__________________ Game on, gang! Ptolus #16 (with customized, personalized sig from Monte. Awesomesauce.), Rappan Athuk Reloaded #37 (Another Awesomesauce, the Necromancer way.)
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Characters & Games
Books currently in play: Dungeon & Dragon Magazine (*Scales of War AP*), WOTC 4e Core and Supplemental books
Current Campaign: Scales of War - Lost Mines of Karak -- Kodirgo, Minotaur Barbarian 6; Vondal, Dwarf Cleric 6; Karithul, Gnome Bard 6; Marshaun, Elf Druid 6
So, about the Spellbinder level one daily thing - I was looking at the Troubador, figuring they probably have something which could be used by a Spellbinder, and I noticed Imaginary Terrain. Uses an implement, Illusion keyword - perfect, in other words. Then I looked at the Spellbinder power list again, and Imaginary terrain is listed with the encounter powers, though the power text still says it's a daily. Which is it supposed to be?
So, about the Spellbinder level one daily thing - I was looking at the Troubador, figuring they probably have something which could be used by a Spellbinder, and I noticed Imaginary Terrain. Uses an implement, Illusion keyword - perfect, in other words. Then I looked at the Spellbinder power list again, and Imaginary terrain is listed with the encounter powers, though the power text still says it's a daily. Which is it supposed to be?
Well, I don't have access to my books or files right now--I'm away from home until tomorrow evening--but it's entirely possible that my error was not one of omission, but simply neglecting to break out the level 1 dailies into their own section, but instead kept them under the same heading as the level 1 encounters.
If that proves to be the case, it's certainly a much easier fix.
But again, I'll check tomorrow, as soon as I can.
__________________ Ari Marmell
aka
Mouseferatu
--Rodent of the Dark
1. Savage Charge is not as good as the PHB feat Fast Runner
True. OTOH, there's no minimum stat prereq, and they stack. (Basically, I wanted a feat that mimics the ability many orcs to charge faster from the MM.)
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2. Obfuscating Mist (SB Util 1) does not have a duration.
Any sustainable power that doesn't give a max duration can be sustained for up to 5 minutes or until the end of the encounter. )PHB, p. 278.)
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3. No SB Daily 1st level powers.
Working on that as we speak.
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4. Troubador Arcane Channel could just be a free action, I think. You can do a free action whenever you want, so you should be able to do it during an allies turn. If not just a free action it needs to be an imm interrupt as a reaction is taken after the action (i.e. the allies power) is totally resolved/finished. However if using it as a free action is not correct an immediate action definitely needs a trigger description.
The "free" is extraneous. It's an immediate action. (It does have a trigger description.)
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5. Soothe the savage beast (Tr Daily 1)has the paralysis keyword which does not exist AFAIK.
D'oh! Old keyword that got cut. Just ignore it.
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6. IMO Demon Dance (MA Enc 1) which basically does [w] damage to every creature within 2 squares for the entire encounter is just a little over powered!
Damn it! That's supposed to be a daily power!
As far as the color-coding, I can't speak to that. That's the layout department, and I have no clue if it's something they can do easily or not. My guess is no, because the entire file is in black-and-white (as that's how it was published), but like I said, I'm just guessing.
Sending the errata list to Joe in just a few minutes.
(And lest anyone get the wrong idea, while I'm very sorry for these mistakes, I'm still quite proud of the book as a whole.)
__________________ Ari Marmell
aka
Mouseferatu
--Rodent of the Dark
. Impatient people could use the Phantom Chasm daily from Dragon 364 for a close-ish? fit.
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