General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
Awesome job Ari! I never bought non WotC 3x stuff ... I know so sad, even sadder if it was of this quality. I got the PDF last night after reading the review and link here at EnWorld. Thanks for the heads up.
QUESTION: Is the non pdf version in full colour? If it is I'm sad because I was so hoping for a colour pdf :-)
True. OTOH, there's no minimum stat prereq, and they stack. (Basically, I wanted a feat that mimics the ability many orcs to charge faster from the MM.)
cool, fair enough.
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Any sustainable power that doesn't give a max duration can be sustained for up to 5 minutes or until the end of the encounter. )PHB, p. 278.)
what sustain? There is no sustain action listed???
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Working on that as we speak.
cool
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The "free" is extraneous. It's an immediate action. (It does have a trigger description.)
D'oh sorry ..how embarrassing!
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D'oh! Old keyword that got cut. Just ignore it.
Will do, was going to just letting you know
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Damn it! That's supposed to be a daily power!
Kay, still pretty awesome!
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Sending the errata list to Joe in just a few minutes.
If we find more do you still want it here?
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(And lest anyone get the wrong idea, while I'm very sorry for these mistakes, I'm still quite proud of the book as a whole.)
And you should be great book, especially since it was written with the rules in a state of flux. One might even say that the WotC core 3 probably have more errors per page! Worth the money and I paid for the hardcopy and PDF Keep it up and I'll keep buying.
what sustain? There is no sustain action listed???
That's odd. Both my print copy and my PDF have "Sustain Minor" listed.
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Kay, still pretty awesome!
Yeah, it's definitely on the upper end. That's why I didn't include any stat mods. But I wanted it to be a pretty good offensive stance, since the monk's a striker and most stances belong to the defenders.
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If we find more do you still want it here?
Here's just fine. Or e-mail me, either way you prefer.
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And you should be great book, especially since it was written with the rules in a state of flux. One might even say that the WotC core 3 probably have more errors per page! Worth the money and I paid for the hardcopy and PDF Keep it up and I'll keep buying.
Thanks.
__________________ Ari Marmell
aka
Mouseferatu
--Rodent of the Dark
I haven't received my hardcover yet, hopefully soon! However the PDF from XRP has this for Obfuscating Mist
Spoiler:
Obfuscating Mist Spellbinder Utility 2
A wide bank of mist rolls in out of nowhere, obscuring the
area around you.
Daily • Arcane, Illusion
Standard Action Close burst 3
Effect: The fog blocks line of sight. Although it initially
forms around you, it does not move with you.
If you want me to delete this please tell me and I'll get rid of it but it is not giving too much away
I haven't received my hardcover yet, hopefully soon! However the PDF from XRP has this for Obfuscating Mist
Spoiler:
Obfuscating Mist Spellbinder Utility 2
A wide bank of mist rolls in out of nowhere, obscuring the
area around you.
Daily • Arcane, Illusion
Standard Action Close burst 3
Effect: The fog blocks line of sight. Although it initially
forms around you, it does not move with you.
If you want me to delete this please tell me and I'll get rid of it but it is not giving too much away
I think I can tolerate one power appearing here.
It's odd, though. My copy has the following line at the end:
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Sustain Minor: The cloud persists.
I have no idea why your PDF wouldn't have that when the book and my PDF do. That's the funkiest thing...
Guys? Can anyone else reading this thread who bought the PDF check their copy, please? I'd like to know if this is some sort of glitch in Mach's copy, or if it's endemic to all the YGN-purchased PDFs.
__________________ Ari Marmell
aka
Mouseferatu
--Rodent of the Dark
I hope I haven't come off as too negative. I think this is a great book, and the '1st edition feel' is there. I DM now but when I used to play (after BECMI) my fave PCs where half orc fighter assassins and gnome illusionists so I love the book. I always even liked 3E bards despite their suckyness and I am happy to see a decent one here!
Guys? Can anyone else reading this thread who bought the PDF check their copy, please? I'd like to know if this is some sort of glitch in Mach's copy, or if it's endemic to all the YGN-purchased PDFs.
My PDF also has nothing about sustaining in Obfuscating Mist in the Spellbinder section.
EDIT: Nevermind, I see you already figured it out Ari.
Last edited by miscreationist; 5th October 2008 at 02:14 AM..
My 1st impression....honestly its disappointment, and let me go through a few points and clarify why.
My first look was the martial artist. I thought the charge mechanic was a great idea. The extra attack is interesting, it lowers his big damage numbers but makes his damage more consistent, provided he has minor actions to spend. I think as levels get higher and a character needs those minor actions for more activations the mechanic is going to look weaker and weaker.
And then I saw the 1st level encounter power Demon Dance, and I'll admit I reread the power 5 times because I couldn't believe my eyes. It is much stronger than the Fighter's Rain of Steel (considered by some to be an overpowered power its in own right)...its 1st level....and its an encounter power! I think that is literally the strongest power I have seen to date. Sure this guy is a striker, but I don't think he's supposed to be mowing down every minion in sight at 1st level....every single fight.
I'll admit I stopped looking at the martial artist after that. I will go back and read the whole class, but if those are the kind of powers I'm going to be seeing I don't have a lot of hope for the book.
But hey, just because I find a part of a book I don't like, doesn't mean the rest of the book isn't good! So I read on. The troubador looks cool, but my eyes moved on to the savage warrior. I am playing a "barbarian" right now (fighter with some barbarianesque qualities) so I was itching to see this class.
Once again, the charge mechanic is a good innovation. The rest is...meh is the only thing I can say. Primal Resilience doesn't come close to making up for the loss of 3 or 4 AC in many cases (as neither dex nor int are prime stats) for barbarians. Fury looks neat, until you compare it to a fighter. As a fighter I get a +1 to attack rolls straight up. My fighter's AC is naturally higher all the time. The crit bump is the nicest part of the class, but eventually becomes overwritten by feats, magic items, and other crit enhancing abilities.
Further, the class doesn't feel like a defender to me. I only mark when a charge, so I don't mark on many encounter and daily abilities. I get a piece of a the fighter's defending ability, but don't get the stickiness.
And lastly I skimmed through the first few levels of powers. I like the at-wills for the most part, the encounter powers don't seem that great, and the dailies are just okay. I honestly think my dragonborn fighter seems to be a better barbarian than this class. I get better AC, reaping strike, big attacks all the time, my encounter powers do more damage, etc.
So I'm going to finish reading the rest of the book, and some of the other mechanics look interesting. I hope I find some other sections of the book that I do really like, we shall see.
I agree on Demon Dance. MF has stated above it is supposed to be a daily, just read back a couple of posts. even then it is too powerful IMO. However that aside I really like the MA. the powers are a lot more interesting than many of the rangers and rogues.
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Last edited by mach1.9pants; 5th October 2008 at 02:24 AM..
And if A, how would you prefer to see it done? Based on a non-primary stat for martial artists (probably strength)? Or something else?
As it stands now, I see two problems with it:
a) It deals too much damage, and by using the [W] expression, it adds enhancement bonuses and other weapon-derived stuff (Weapon Focus), which makes it very damaging.
b) It clears minions in a big, big field, simply by being too close to the MA.
Personally, I see this as a possible "fix", or at least as a route to go:
To fix a), it should just deal damage equal to a stat modifier. This lowers the damage and avoids piling up additional bonuses.
Fixing b) is a bit harder, but I think doing the damage when an enemy ends it turn within 2 squares would do.
That way, minions are only killed if they move close and stay here. Furthermore, it ties into the general theme of strikers of being able to avoid attacks by the enemy - usually this is done by being movement.
This version of Demon Dance would effectively set up a disincentive to attack the MA directly, especially for weaker enemies.
The power is still interesting, as in conjunction with slow/immobilisation effects it is still very effect - effects the MA can use (and it also encourages teamwork).
Well....give me a chance to read the rest of it. If I find some solid stuff that I like I promise I will toot the horn
As for Demon Dance, I think the minion killing potential of this power is just too great right now, so lowering the damage isn't going to help. Besides, the monk is a striker, so I don't mind the damage as much. So you might consider lowering the radius on it to creatures adjacent to you, like rain of steel, which will help the problem.
You could in fact just make demon dance like rain of steel. ROS is probably one of the most strikerish powers a fighter gets, so giving it to the monk doesn't seem unreasonable.
I got my copy today as I was going to my sat game, so I brought it with me...I have to say after all the lead up, and the great work I have seen you do it was a let down...Most of the mistakes I found are noticed here, especialy the Martial Art minnor attack, but they have a bunch of stances that minnor sustain...and the Damage is like hunters quarry when I would expect...since it can miss it would be like sneak att (2d6...3d6...5d6).
However even with all that, and the fact that it is B&W not color, it was still worth the $25. I see you have some GREAT ideas. I see you have some real great work, but I think you may have bitten off alittle more then you can chew.
all and all 2.5 stars, and 1 thumb up...
keep up the good work, your worst (that i know of) book is still better then alot of 3pp books I have seen over the last 8 years
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Originally Posted by Remathilis
Planescape
It should be given special award to Die Vecna, Die: a module that manages to trash no less than THREE different settings (Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Planescape) in the course of one module.
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Originally Posted by Remathilis
Those of you who fretted that monsters have too many hp and fights take too long: meet the barbarian. The ULTIMATE "Lets speed this combat up, I need to whiz" class!
I suggest Daily 5 and change to damage = Wisdom Modifier (using same ability as Writhing Serpent Strike, which is not going to be as high as Dexterity).
I like the idea of moving it to affect characters who end their turns within 2 squares just to differentiate it from Rain of Steel (and I would not incorporate the requirement to have free Opportunity Attacks included in Rain of Steel).
As Stalker mentioned, this still becomes a minion killer, though because of the Range 2. Maybe range should be 1 even with the reduced damage?
Another option might be to have it take effect at the start of the Martial Artist's turn. The MA would have to use a minor action at beginning of her turn to effect up to Dex mod enemies within 2 squares with damage = Wis Mod. If you are a Hard Style MA, damage = +1; if you are a Soft Style than one of the enemies you damaged is knocked prone.
If you move this to level 5, then you also need to include another encounter power. Currently, none of the encounter powers give 2(W), unlike both Rogue and Ranger (the other strikers), so I see room for an encounter power that gives 2(W).
Maybe something that is Dex vs. AC, and opponent is unbalanced.
Destabilizing Strike
Martial Artist Attack 1
You strike an ememy's joints or other vulnerable points to knock your target off balance.
Encounter • Chi, Divine
Standard Action Melee: Weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] and your target has -2 AC and Reflex penalty until beginning of your next turn
Or something that lets you judo flip the target
Crushing Throw
Martial Artist Attack 1
You use leverage and technique to throw your target crashing to the ground
Encounter • Chi, Divine
Standard Action Melee: Weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. AC
Hit: 2[W]
Effect: Slide target into square adjacent to you, and make target prone
OVerall I likethe book and look forward to using it in my campaign.
Hey, I like this book. If all it has wrong are a few spots of errata and one misplaced power, then I think you’re doing great. I can simply house rule out the Uber-power, but I don’t even have to do that because the author is cool and responsive. So I say, thumbs up, man! Good job, and thanks!
J-Dog
Specifically, I liked the fact that the abilities weren’t simple variations on the abilities in the PHB. If I wanted a sticky defender, I’d play a Fighter. The Savage Warrior pays you back for attacking someone else. Heck, he doesn’t even have to mark you to do it. So you don’t necessarily know it’s coming.
Just to balance out some of my negative comments, I do like the lingering wound system. Its quick, easy to use, can be tailored to a person's campaign, and gives some more use for endurance I also think the slightly deadly option is a great idea, it makes it so that lingering wounds aren't too commonplace, but doesn't require a lot of complicated tracking. My only fear is that it will encourage players to rest more frequently.
I think we will see a lot more use out of the disease track as time goes on, people in general seem to really like it.
The Class Acts article in Dragon 364 had nine new illusion spells for wizards (all from levels 1-10).
Given the specialization of the Spellbinder on illusions, would it make sense to trade some or all of these spells for the ones on the Spellbinder list?
I noticed some overlap between the Spellbinder level 1 attack Imaginary Terrain and the Utility 2 Phantasmal Terrain, and the at-will Illusory Ambush and the Spellbinder's at-will Phantom Strike.
I realize that your work on the Spellbinder and Rodney's work on the Class Acts article were going on at the same time, so you would not have been able to take these spells into account.
Since I intend to make both options available to my players, using the new illusion spells with their wizard and playing a Spellbinder, I was just trying to get a sense on how to balance the two.
Perhaps the simplest answer is to just let my players choose if they want to swap out a Spellbinder spell for one from the article. I don't think I would let Wizards go the other way though and take Spellbinder spells in lieu of theirs.
Thanks -- comments from everyone else are welcome as well.
(Basically, I wanted a feat that mimics the ability many orcs to charge faster from the MM.)
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