CCF refused D&D donations

[jaerdaph]

Some days I thank God I'm an atheist...

[Rykion]

Originally Posted by mlund

Can anyone direct me to copy sent by the Christian Children's Fund?

Everything I've read through so far by following links has been hearsay and speculation as to the cause of them declining the donation.

- Marty Lund

I doubt anyone has put the actual communication online, but the group that runs the auction mention that D&D was the reason it was turned down here:Live Game Auctions -Charity

[RefinedBean]

Hrm. I don't ever remember the CCF being like that...so long as it's money to help children and not in the name of 1. Satan or 2. Homosexuals for the Conversion of All Other People to Homosexuality, then they usually don't care.

Do we have confirmation that this WAS the reason they denied the donation?

[mlund]

Originally Posted by Rykion

I doubt anyone has put the actual communication online, but the group that runs the auction mention that D&D was the reason it was turned down here:Live Game Auctions -Charity

Yeah, I came across that. It gives me the auction group's one-sentence opinion, not a quote or any real information. I'd like to know the details of the objection. Being the rotten, skeptical scoundrel that I am I'm left with questions and suspicions that actual evidence or facts would be useful in fielding. Most importantly, "sales of Dungeons and Dragons" is the key issue I'd like to be expounded upon. If the objection is strictly to the brand as a whole I'd be surprised and disappointed. If, on the other hand, the objection had to do with certain products (for examples, "The Book of Erotic Fantasy," or "The Pleasure Prison of the B'thuvian Demon Whore") being in the auction it would paint a different picture for me. On yet another hand ("I found this in the back") if their objection had something to do with, say, Hasbro (the makers of D&D) as a company that would present things in yet another light.

As they say, "the devil is in the details."

I'd like said details before I summarily file them in my "Jack Chick" bin.

Trust but verify.

- Marty Lund

[guivre]

That's funny. I made a point not to participate because of the charity in question, and they turned down the money anyway.

[Simon Atavax]

Originally Posted by mlund

Yeah, I came across that. It gives me the auction group's one-sentence opinion, not a quote or any real information. I'd like to know the details of the objection. Being the rotten, skeptical scoundrel that I am I'm left with questions and suspicions that actual evidence or facts would be useful in fielding. Most importantly, "sales of Dungeons and Dragons" is the key issue I'd like to be expounded upon. If the objection is strictly to the brand as a whole I'd be surprised and disappointed. If, on the other hand, the objection had to do with certain products (for examples, "The Book of Erotic Fantasy," or "The Pleasure Prison of the B'thuvian Demon Whore") being in the auction it would paint a different picture for me. On yet another hand ("I found this in the back") if their objection had something to do with, say, Hasbro (the makers of D&D) as a company that would present things in yet another light.

As they say, "the devil is in the details."

I'd like said details before I summarily file them in my "Jack Chick" bin.

Trust but verify.

- Marty Lund

Tisk, tisk. Marty, your desire for actual verifiable information goes against the entire "Let's Bash Fundamentalist Christians" meme that so many gamers thrive on!

[Brown Jenkin]

Originally Posted by mlund

"The Pleasure Prison of the B'thuvian Demon Whore"

Darn, I missed that one at the auction. Maybe next year.

[mlund]

Originally Posted by Brown Jenkin

Darn, I missed that one at the auction. Maybe next year.

I just want to be clear: I don't know which products were or were not part of the auction and don't mean to imply they were. I've seen a few "adults only" auction items at conventions in my day but I didn't attend the GenCon 2008 auction. I was busy playing in events.

I'm merely observing that such products exist and that if they were included in such an auction I could understand how it might raise objections from a charity, and how said objections could be summarized as objections to "the sale of Dungeons and Dragons products." I use this as an example of possibilities that make me want to have more information on the matter before making a judgment.

- Marty Lund

[thalmin]

Please don't let this keep anyone from making a donation to a worthwhile charity. The kids still need the money. But, if you want to make donations "in memory of E. Gary Gygax, creator of Dungeons & Dragons" you can make your point where it counts. Let them refuse if they want, but they will see how much their stance could cost them.
Again, the kids still need the donations.

[Erik Mona]

Obviously, as this was Gygax's favorite charity, it makes sense that Gen Con chose CCF for last year's event. But I've got to say, I think it's a terrible idea to tie corporate donations to a cause that is intimately tied to a religious or political concern. It's just asking for trouble, as you cannot be sure that all of the participants/donors will be of the same beliefs/political bent, and thus some people might be dissuaded from donating.

It'd be like having a charity auction with all of the proceeds going to the Obama campaign, or something. I mean, great, from my perspective, but inappropriate for a lot of potential donors.

--Erik

[jgbrowning]

Originally Posted by mlund

I just want to be clear: I don't know which products were or were not part of the auction and don't mean to imply they were. I've seen a few "adults only" auction items at conventions in my day but I didn't attend the GenCon 2008 auction. I was busy playing in events.

I'm merely observing that such products exist and that if they were included in such an auction I could understand how it might raise objections from a charity, and how said objections could be summarized as objections to "the sale of Dungeons and Dragons products." I use this as an example of possibilities that make me want to have more information on the matter before making a judgment.

- Marty Lund

B'thuvian is far from "adults only." Using movie terms it is PG - or at worst PG-13. If it was at the auction, someone other than the publisher put it up for sale.

joe "I wrote it" b.

[guivre]

Originally Posted by Erik Mona

Obviously, as this was Gygax's favorite charity, it makes sense that Gen Con chose CCF for last year's event. But I've got to say, I think it's a terrible idea to tie corporate donations to a cause that is intimately tied to a religious or political concern. It's just asking for trouble, as you cannot be sure that all of the participants/donors will be of the same beliefs/political bent, and thus some people might be dissuaded from donating.

It'd be like having a charity auction with all of the proceeds going to the Obama campaign, or something. I mean, great, from my perspective, but inappropriate for a lot of potential donors.

--Erik

+1

It's understandable why this charity was picked but that doesn't make it any less exclusive.

[Brown Jenkin]

Originally Posted by Erik Mona

Obviously, as this was Gygax's favorite charity, it makes sense that Gen Con chose CCF for last year's event. But I've got to say, I think it's a terrible idea to tie corporate donations to a cause that is intimately tied to a religious or political concern. It's just asking for trouble, as you cannot be sure that all of the participants/donors will be of the same beliefs/political bent, and thus some people might be dissuaded from donating.

It'd be like having a charity auction with all of the proceeds going to the Obama campaign, or something. I mean, great, from my perspective, but inappropriate for a lot of potential donors.

--Erik

While I agree with you in general I think there is a mojor difference when it comes to making a postumous gift in someones honor. If this was Gary's charity of choice then for a memorial gift his wishes should be honored no matter what charity it is. As a general rule Gen Con and the auction have agreed as well and chosen non-political/non-religious charities at other times can recall.

People knew in this case what the charity was and why it was chosen. While it is possible the charity did not recieve as much as possible if it had been a neutral charity, it was still each donors choice to give. No one was forced to donate to this charity against their will.

[Erik Mona]

I agree that CCF was an appropriate choice given Gary's wishes, and was speaking more in a general sense.

--Erik

[Hunter In Darkness]

The level of foolish intolerance is staggering. That money was being given out of kindness and kinship for others well being. To turn it away is over what amounts to ideological scabbels is foolish and not in the best interest of the people it was meant to help.

[guivre]

Originally Posted by Hunter In Darkness

The level of foolish intolerance is staggering. That money was being given out of kindness and kinship for others well being. To turn it away is over what amounts to ideological scabbels is foolish and not in the best interest of the people it was meant to help.

The problem isn't that the money is being turned away on ideological grounds, it's that this specific ideology is particularly ignorant and intolerant (which shouldn't come as a surprise).

You would expect an organization to refuse money gained by murder, rape, and theft. Or, more realistically, to refuse money gained by other, lawful, but distasteful means. To them they're just refusing money garned from a source that is anti-ethical to their beliefs (assuming the indications of the reason are correct). However, from where you're (we're) standing it's obvious ignorance.

Edit: Look on the bright side though... at least they're not refusing aid to those that don't follow their beliefs... I'm sure they take every opportunity to proselytize but I guess that is a perk and part of the reason for the charity to begin with.

[justanobody]

Isn't the CCF, the place that Sally Struthers eats all the food for?

I would think they shoul not turn down money to aid anyone for any reason. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of being a charity if you are unwilling to help someone? I mean it isn't drug/blood money.

[Solodan]

I'm on the same page as you guys, but lets take a look at this from a financial perspective, i.e. what will help the kids out the most. There are some people who still think D&D is evil - they got spoonfed that idea through churches or mass media outlets (lets be honest, it isn't just Christians or religious people who give us funny looks sometimes) It is very possible that there are single donors who give more than the 18K raised at Gencon '08 in Gary's memory. Just as we are sending letters asking them to be more tolerant, odds are that some other donors sent just as many or more letters (in a dollar value sense) saying that they shouldn't take money from Gencon, and were just as passionate about it as we are.

My gut feeling is that CCF doesnt' care about D&D one way or another. They wouldn't have agreed to it in the first place if they did.

We should justly be angry, but not at CCF and the good work that they do. We should be angry at the bad rep that D&D got so many years ago(and still today in some circles) and hopefully we can do good by roleplaying in general so that the next generation isn't so close-minded. These close minded people who may have sent letters against D&D aren't worthy of our anger either, they simply believe what they are told. Frankly, it is up to us, the RPG community, to undo what was done to us.

[billd91]

Originally Posted by Solodan

We should justly be angry, but not at CCF and the good work that they do. We should be angry at the bad rep that D&D got so many years ago(and still today in some circles) and hopefully we can do good by roleplaying in general so that the next generation isn't so close-minded. These close minded people who may have sent letters against D&D aren't worthy of our anger either, they simply believe what they are told. Frankly, it is up to us, the RPG community, to undo what was done to us.

It may be just to be angry at gaming rep, but let's not blame the victim here. Gamers are not responsible for the unfounded reputation we have had over the years (a fair amount of the nerdy rep we roundly deserve). And, even with the gaming rep, there's no reason for CCF to have had a closed mind about it or Gen Con or even Gary Gygax. So the ire directed at them, even if they do good work, is still just. They spurned an earnest and honest donation out of ignorance and that's their fault and their fault alone.

[Charwoman Gene]

Originally Posted by billd91

And, even with the gaming rep, there's no reason for CCF to have had a closed mind about it or Gen Con or even Gary Gygax.

Let's see... I have an organization that based it's philosophy out of a book. Most of my money comes from people who have a high percentage of hating McDonald's without cause even though they think it has something to do with the rule book. A rule in the book says that despite Pizza Hut being okay, and me and my organization is smart enough to know that, we should avoid publicly be seen at Pizza Hut by other people who aren't smart enough to get it, or at least take steps to make sure it doesn't cause them to stop listening to the book.

So, Ray Kroc has been donating to us for YEARS. We take his money, we're smart enough to not worry about it. Ray passes, and McDonald's customers have a charity auction in front of a McDonald's selling vintage happy meal toys and crap, and want our permission to use our name as to where the money is going.

So do I refuse a small amount of money or cause disruption to the larger?