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Okay... enough is enough. Encumberance rules are fine and good but I think even more needed are rules for "Bulk". IMG one of my players is running a shooty elven ranger and is walking around with 20 quivers of arrows. How on earth does someone run around with all of the usual adventuring gear, including backpack & bedroll, and have the ability to carry 20 quivers? It is like asking someone who can lift 200 lbs to carry around 200 one-pound-pillows. It is impossible... not from a strength perspective but from the perspective that they just don't have enough surface area on their body to carry 200 pillows no matter how much they weigh. I've offered my player a magical quiver that refills after each extended rest on the condition that he ditch the idea of carrying around a crazy number of arrows.
__________________
"There is no charge for AWESOMENESS!" - Po the Dragon Warrior
RQ2 had the best encumbrance rules I've ever seen.
Items were given an 'encumbrance' value which encompassed the weight and the unwieldiness of the object in one figure. Most 1handed things were Enc 1, most two handed things were Enc 2.
Your maximum encumbrance was average of Str+Siz (you could just use flat Str in D&D).
So an elven ranger with Str 13 might have leather armour (3 Enc), longbow (2 Enc), quiver of 20 arrows (1 Enc), Longsword (1 Enc), Bedroll (2 Enc), Backpack with sundry stuff (3 Enc) for a total of 12 Encumbrance. Maybe give him room for a Handaxe (0.5 Enc) and a potion flask (0.5 Enc) or an extra quiver before he tips over into a heavy load.
Cheers
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I'd like things to go back and forth from "ARGH!" to "WOOO!" more frequently. - Kamikaze Midget
I think the "Quiver of Holding" or something like that is the best idea. Ultimately, once you get a magic ranged weapon, you shouldn't have to deal with ammunition much ... the idea that every thrown (magic) weapon, every melee weapon, every spell ... all don't care about "ammo" makes ammunition based ranged weapons an exception. The tons of quivers is an attempt to avoid "running out of ammo". If the player doesn't feel the need to be overly prepared against running out of ammo (i.e. they know they'll be able to get more arrows before they run out) they won't have to go doing weird things just to avoid it.
Last edited by WalterKovacs; 2nd December 2008 at 01:46 PM..
Okay... enough is enough. Encumberance rules are fine and good but I think even more needed are rules for "Bulk". IMG one of my players is running a shooty elven ranger and is walking around with 20 quivers of arrows. How on earth does someone run around with all of the usual adventuring gear, including backpack & bedroll, and have the ability to carry 20 quivers? It is like asking someone who can lift 200 lbs to carry around 200 one-pound-pillows. It is impossible... not from a strength perspective but from the perspective that they just don't have enough surface area on their body to carry 200 pillows no matter how much they weigh. I've offered my player a magical quiver that refills after each extended rest on the condition that he ditch the idea of carrying around a crazy number of arrows.
I think you've already solved the problem, Jack.
FWIW, the system that Plane_Sailing mentions above sounds pretty intuitive, and I wish to learn more!
RQ2 had the best encumbrance rules I've ever seen.
Items were given an 'encumbrance' value which encompassed the weight and the unwieldiness of the object in one figure. Most 1handed things were Enc 1, most two handed things were Enc 2.
Your maximum encumbrance was average of Str+Siz (you could just use flat Str in D&D).
So an elven ranger with Str 13 might have leather armour (3 Enc), longbow (2 Enc), quiver of 20 arrows (1 Enc), Longsword (1 Enc), Bedroll (2 Enc), Backpack with sundry stuff (3 Enc) for a total of 12 Encumbrance. Maybe give him room for a Handaxe (0.5 Enc) and a potion flask (0.5 Enc) or an extra quiver before he tips over into a heavy load.
Cheers
Ooh, I like this. It even offers a mechanic for backpacks, belt pouches, and the like; a backpack might be 3 Enc but have room for 5 Enc inside.
__________________ When you see the word "realism" in any ENWorld discussion, please mentally substitute "internal consistency of the imagined world such that it abides by its own laws both implied and explicit, including laws such as 'elves exist' and 'magic works.'" Okay? Okay. Glad we got that straightened out.
Even as a DM I hate tracking ammunition, encumbrance, and other misc boring accounting. I'd just say "You have enough ammunition, until I tell you how many you have left and you will track that number."
This way, the only time one has to worry about ammo is when it is pertinent to the situation, such as the party being stranded, lost for days, or otherwise in dire straits.
This reminds me of an old pewter miniature I used to see in hobby stores. It was a guy, hunched over with so much gear it looked like he had a house on his back. The overall effect looked like the peons who followed King Arthur and the knights around in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. The miniature was called: "The Adventurer".
Look at the Magic Item slots and use that for reference. It pretty much covers the Bulk issue you describe. Have players assign their equipment to slots, and create a few extra ones if necessary.
__________________ Author of ZWEIHÄNDER, a grim and perilous universal game system inspired by WFRPG
There was a bulk system in the 2e Skills and Powers, I was only reading it last week, but I've never used it and cannot comment.
__________________ Pablo El Vagabundo
"Mercy!? You want MERCY? I'M CHAOTIC NEUTRAL!!!" One of my rituals is in Goodman Games's Book of Rituals.
Humpty Dumpty exploring the tomb
Humpty Dumpty found Acererak's doom
All of the clerics and all of the scrolls
Couldn't resurrect Humpty Dumpty's soul.
Last edited by vagabundo; 2nd December 2008 at 03:30 PM..
This reminds me of an old pewter miniature I used to see in hobby stores. It was a guy, hunched over with so much gear it looked like he had a house on his back. The overall effect looked like the peons who followed King Arthur and the knights around in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. The miniature was called: "The Adventurer".
Maybe the OP's player should just hire someone to haul all his equipment for him, perhaps someone like this 'adventurer,' heh! Dragging this NPC around could lead to all sorts of fun for the DM.
IMG one of my players is running a shooty elven ranger and is walking around with 20 quivers of arrows.
In all seriousness and I don't mean to be a smart@$$ but....just say no. If the player won't take your word as GM as final then you've got other problems. At least as I see it.
I have always wondered about the "bulk" factor though - I find that (to no real surprise) the people I've never had to worry about getting out of hand with that tend to have backpacking or military experience. Go figure.....
One of the main functions of 4E was to get rid of all of those extraneous rules situations that just clutter and take up space in a rulebook, and put the power back into the DMs hands. So there's no point in complaining that there are no rules for encumberance... you either should just use your DM's prerogative to make a ruling, or come here and ask if anyone has some encumberance rules that they'd be willing to share.
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