How do you make a Mage magical?

[EroGaki]

Originally Posted by Thanael

I second the liberal use of cantrips and spells in genereal and a strongly themed non-bland spell list. Crafting custom items and signature spells/items/tactics are also great. Also pick your feats to the theme, don't over optmize go for interesting flavour. For examples i clearly remember the paizo playtest chracters of Demon boy, a halfling sorcerer with the fire-dragon tbloodline feats, and the tomb born wee jas worshiping spellcastress who was herself very undeady.

Use the Valences model for spell levels to talk about magic in-game. Read Sepulchrave's excellent Story Hour for a glimpse of that. Sep also made use of very themed wizards who all stood out quite clearly from each other. His wizards were the rolemodel of what D&D wizards and their relations to each other should be. (Also much Jack Vance in there.)

A Spell Path system also works wonders for Wizards. Want to be able to tell one wizard from the others more? Give them different themes. Even if you don't implement the full spell path system use it to pick the different themed spells, I have always found the Spell Path System very useful for that. I've used the original 2E version by Kuntz/Baur from Dragon 216 quite a bit. A revised excerpt can be seen here: Spell Path Page

Sean K Reynolds adapted the basic system to 3E: Path Magic

And Green Ronin did an even better version in their Advanced Player's Manual, for their Eldritch Weaver class. The excellent Frilond site compiled an alphabetical list of spells and their Spell Threads and Spell Threads with spells from the Spell Compendium on their Eldritch Weaver Materials site.

I am very familiar with Sep's storyhour; the magic-users all have so mych flavor its disgusting .

I really like the stuff on Spell Paths, it's very interesting work. The Eldritch Weaver cool, but I'm not sure if my DM would go for it.

[Thanael]

Well as i said you can use the spell paths to pick your spells more thematically even if you don't use the eldritch weaver class.

What i loved about Sep's wizards is not only the strong themes, but that the relations they had with each other made sense. And they did make use of all those high level magics frequently. Mostin the Metagnostic lived in a permanent Mordenkainen's Magical Mansion in the woods and later had a fey as an apprentice, while Mulissu lived on the Plane of Air I believe and had a daughter with a djinni. The meetings between the wizards were very interesting, sometimes they traded rare spells with each other but even between close friends and peers such trade was always a bit tricky. And nobody did trade their own self-researchd siganture spells. The legendary magical items were also great. All in all it was a great picture of a wizardly society.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Originally Posted by Ahglock

For me what makes magic unmagicky is

1. Reliability

2. Repeatability.

Once something is reliable and repeatable it feels like science with a different skin to me. Since 3e+ has no backfires or other unintended effects, I'd focus on spells that have variable effects based on either a die roll or arbitrary facts about the targets like there hit dice.

So sorcerers are automatically unmagicky to you? They have no choice but to repeatedly cast the same spells.

If the second paragraph is what you want, try Wild Mage. I don't see why magic has to be inherently chaotic and unpredictable, though. Then again, I've never had much of a problem with magic as technology. *Casts Prestidigitation* "Want me to microwave that steak for you?"

[Ahglock]

Originally Posted by StreamOfTheSky

So sorcerers are automatically unmagicky to you? They have no choice but to repeatedly cast the same spells.

If the second paragraph is what you want, try Wild Mage. I don't see why magic has to be inherently chaotic and unpredictable, though. Then again, I've never had much of a problem with magic as technology. *Casts Prestidigitation* "Want me to microwave that steak for you?"

I used a and clause for a reason. But yes in 3e and 4e the sorcerer is unmagicky to me since all the spells are totally reliable and repeatable.

As an example lets look at shadowrun. All the spells are totally repeatable, you can cast them over and over again. But it feels more magical to me because of the side effects form drain, critical failures, possibilities for total resists of a fireball and other magic, background count, and a bunch of other quirks. You can cast a spell and bootch a drain resistance test and fall over dead or unconscious. So its not really in the relaible category anymore.

[Dannyalcatraz]

I don't know the Pathfinder alterations, but I'll try to be as helpful as possible anyway.

1) Alt spellbooks are cool. Beyond the ones I've seen mentioned here, I've also seen/used runestones, runesticks, spellknots, spellbeads (braided into the caster's hair), spellstitching (woven into cloth).

2) If they're available, the reserve feats add nice dimensions to your caster.

3) Use the sorcerer Heritage/Bloodline feats, especially those that give you the ability to channel spell energy into breath weapons and the like. Yes, they do require a level of sorcerer, but once you pay that "cost" they work for all arcane spells.

In the alternative, take the other spellchannelling feats, like Arcane Strike.

4) Use some of the alternative spellcasting rules, like the fatigue system.

5) While Taboos are only required for Wu-Jen in D&D, many mages in fiction and legend had strictures that- Paladin-like- would cost them their powers if they were willingly violated. From the Thieves' World stories, you have the Blue Star Adepts like Lythande, each of whom has a unique taboo they choose. Certain peoples believed that arcane practitioners lost their arcane potency if they had sex (sometimes permanently, sometimes just for a period of time).

Someone who can call bolts of energy with but a word and gesture, but who must avert his eyes whenever he sees a dog will certainly seem mysterious..

[Dannyalcatraz]

Another way to add to the "magical" nature of arcane casters is simply to give Spell Thematics as a free Feat to classes of your choice (although possibly without the change in DC to Spellcraft rolls).

[EroGaki]

Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz

Another way to add to the "magical" nature of arcane casters is simply to give Spell Thematics as a free Feat to classes of your choice (although possibly without the change in DC to Spellcraft rolls).

I like spell thematics. the only problem I have with it that it sort of locks all of your spells in that them, which can get very boring and predictable after a time.

Thankfully, I don't need a feat to describe how my spells like and sound. The only bad part is that there is a tendency for people with ranks in spell craft to try and decipher what it is. In fact, last game I cast a spell that involved me pulling a spirit out of a human skull my mage keeps with him (don't ask), and wearing the spirit like a cloak. It was a simple mage armor spell, but I didn't want the cleric know that. One spell craft check later, and he drilling me on what that spell was.

[Dannyalcatraz]

I like spell thematics. the only problem I have with it that it sort of locks all of your spells in that them, which can get very boring and predictable after a time.

Well, as is, Spell Thematics only applies to spells you cast or memorize with Spell Thematics.

As a freebie, perhaps the PC must choose a particular school or type of spell to which he can apply the "virtual feat." For a Specialist mage, for instance, it would only apply to his field of specialization. For a spontaneous caster, perhaps it can only be used with a certain # of spell slots/level (perhaps based on # of bonus spells gained from a high casting stat), or only to a certain % of his known spells.

[Loonook]

Pick a theme... alter spells fit that theme, and don't worry about feats and such.

A fireball is a great one... yeah, you can get an elemental alteration for it, but the power of fire damage doesn't necessitate fire to do the damage. A water witch may attempt to boil the blood in your body through tendrils of mist which flicker out... an air mage may turn the air in the area into a shimmering hellish nightmare... a mentalist could make a sort of Bene Gesserit pain-box sensation creep into the body... blisters, smoldering flesh if you look upon them as their aura seems to flash into a solar flare. It is the essence of the spell, mixed with their theme... heat, pain, and an effect which you need to turn away from/dodge.

Enervation? Withering limbs, or a scrambling of the mind, an effect which ages the target... all sorts of things. All sorts of effects...

Personally I agree with the whole repeatability and overuse argument to a certain point. I like the idea that a mage doesn't show his full combat power unless it is called upon... and then he or she stands in a smoldering crater panting, covered in sweat. There are some great ways to add touches... when I was playing in a Modern game as a mage I took a very fetishistic bend to my magic. Divination spell? Crack open a bottle of wine and bring the chalice. Or the planchette. He wasn't about showy magic, but he used trinkets, bound energy, etc. for his powers.

I also would suggest looking at some of the old Spell Compendium lists of spells... probably one of the best worldbuilding pieces I have ever seen. Nice, concise lists of what specific groups knew, could learn, or spells which only maybe one person ever dared to learn. Great way to pick up on things.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

[roguerouge]

Everything's better with tentacles. Ask yourself: do my spells have enough tentacles? Have I been neglecting my tentacled masters, unhallowed be their name? Have I spread the good word about tentacles today? You, sir, the one backing away, have you opened your heart to the glory of tentacles?

[EroGaki]

Originally Posted by roguerouge

Everything's better with tentacles. Ask yourself: do my spells have enough tentacles? Have I been neglecting my tentacled masters, unhallowed be their name? Have I spread the good word about tentacles today? You, sir, the one backing away, have you opened your heart to the glory of tentacles?

Lol!

[Dannyalcatraz]

Everything's better with tentacles. Ask yourself: do my spells have enough tentacles? Have I been neglecting my tentacled masters, unhallowed be their name? Have I spread the good word about tentacles today? You, sir, the one backing away, have you opened your heart to the glory of tentacles?

"F'tagn" is the sound you make when your snort of laughter turns into a spit-take.

[Nedz]

I always theame my arcanists - both as a DM and as a player. I like the spell paths idea, but they would just reflect what I do anyway.
Quite often there are really useful "must-have" spells which I ignore - because they are out of character. This gives each mage more flavour. I used to enforce this (back in my 2nd Ed days) but I found that most players do this to a degree in any event.