General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
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I've already fully analyzed it and come to the carefully considered conclusion that this is way overpowered and broken. Power creep has come to 4e. We are all doomed.
Interesting approach... I think the forced 2-powers-per-class will work out as intended most of the time. The restriction to striker class features to powers of that class is an easy way to prevent certain crazy combinations.
I'm eager to hear some playtests with this... we're taking a break in a few weeks as the players finish up this story arc and letting a player DM that orc delve w/ the pregens wotc gave out. Depending on how much time I have to generate a character, I might see if he'll let me try out a hybrid character instead.
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I have the exact opposite reaction to Thasmodious. It requires so many hoops to jump through to powerful, that it's for the most part, weaksauce.
You get an aspect of the class's features, but not all of them (for instance, Warlock Curse, but not Warloct's Pact stuff), and they're obviously not as good (curse damage only works with warlock powers). Very meh. (not to mention, how do you handle things like the Beastmaster ranger)?
Also disappointing that it only did PHB (+SM) hybrids, rather than PHB2. I have a player who wants a hybrid Druid/Invoker, and so looks like we're going to have to go at that from scratch.
The nice consolation prize is that you can use implements of both classes and use any power with them (I.e. a Cleric/Wizard using a holy symbol to cast Thunderwave).
You choose two classes. Each class has a unique entry - "Hybrid Cleric" for example. I'll use clerics and fighters as examples, but they give us all the PHB1 classes as well as the swordmage in the preview.
Each entry lists the armor, weapons, and implements you become proficient in (although you only gain proficiency in armor shared by both classes), and the bonuses you gain to defenses. You combine the defense bonuses: cleric gets +1 Will, fighter gets +1 Fortitude, etc.
You also gain a combination of hit points at 1st level and every level after. Hyrbid clerics get 6 hp at 1st level and 2 at every level gained. Fighters gain 7 and 3. The same goes for healing surges - clerics get 3 surges per day, fighters 4.
You combine the list of class skills from both classes and gain 3 trained skills from that list. Some classes grant you extra trained skills - rangers get 1, rogues get 2, for example.
When you select your powers, you get 1 at-will from each hybrid class. When you get 2 or more powers in a category at least 1 of those powers must come from each class.
You gain the class features listed for your hybrid classes, which are watered down when compared to the true class. Hybrid clerics get Healer's Lore and Healing Word, though they can only use the later 1/encounter. Fighters only gain Combat Challenge and can only mark enemies with fighter powers/fighter paragon path powers.
You are considered a member of both classes for meeting pre-reqs, for things such as feats and paragon paths. Your class features still count as the original version for meeting pre-reqs too.
It's kinda exactly what I was hoping for - but the question is whether it's balanced enough.
Well it definitely seems that WoTC knows that this could be quite unbalancing and are being careful. What with it not being currently allowed in RPGA or put into the Character Builder.
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This actually makes me think about breaking class features down into feats, in order to allow hybrid characters to get the class features in full (or at least, access to class features they don't have).
For instance, Feat: Turn Undead [Pre-Req: Cleric Hybrid] (works as normal).
Or Feat: Healing Word [Pre-Req: Cleric Hybrid] (you can use it twice per encounter).
1. Its going to take me a while to assimilate this.
2. Some people are going to be inevitably unhappy because they want SPECIFIC combinations of class abilities, and this doesn't give you all possible combinations.
3. I admire that WotC had the balls to say, up front, that hybrid characters aren't automatically good in every combination. That your combination may just plain not work well. That you may have to come up with some other way of creating your character concept, or that you may have to give up. This was going to be true of any system they possibly could have invented, due to the combinatorial issues and the underlying ability score architecture. I salute them for having the guts to put up a warning sign that admits this, rather than to try to pretend that everything is fine even when it can't be. A good "use at your own risk" is worth so much in terms of people's expectations and demands.
Check page 3-4 for the feat Hybrid Talent. It lets you gain a class feature from one of your classes that you don't already have hybridized. It does -not- mention being able to take it multiple times.
It will let you play a beastmaster ranger hybrid though.
I can guess what the hybrid versions of the PHB2 classes would be:
Avenger: Oath of Emnity only works with Avenger powers.
Barbarian: Ragestrike - Barbarian dailies only, possibly get rampage.
Bard: Majestic Word once, skill versatility
Druid: Wildshape, likely the same as the full feature.
Invoker: You might get the covenant ability but not the associated channel divinity power.
Shaman: You get a companion spirit, but it might be a standard action to call. And maybe Healing Spirit 1/enc.
Sorcerer: Spell source bonus damage, sorcerer powers only.
Warden: Nature's Wrath to only one adjacent enemy.
Check page 3-4 for the feat Hybrid Talent. It lets you gain a class feature from one of your classes that you don't already have hybridized. It does -not- mention being able to take it multiple times.
It will let you play a beastmaster ranger hybrid though.
It's assumed that all feats can only be taken once, unless otherwise specified. I noticed that a lot of the defensive abilities aren't hybrid abilities.
And I'm sure that anyone who actually takes the Swordmage hybrid will probably want to get Swordmage Warding with that feat right away, because they're stuck with the worst armour proficiencies of both classes.
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