General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
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Wizards of the Coast has instructed us to suspend all sales and downloads of Wizards of the Coast titles. Unfortunately, this includes offering download access to previously purchased Wizards of the Coast titles. We are in discussions with Wizards about their decision to change their approach to digital sales of their titles and will post more information as we have it. If you would like to let Wizards know your opinion on offering D&D titles for download, we suggest the D&D Message Boards found here (linked to gleemax).
This certainly stings me as a PDF-exclusive buyer and user of D&D.
So what could this mean in the long run...? Here are my thoughts from the WotC forums:
Quote:
Very likely they're planning to start selling the PDFs online themselves so they can keep the money from online sales. So first step is to take away the permission for anybody else to sell PDFs online.
Same thing happened with all the online character generators and online D&D tools about six months before 4e was announced. And Dragon/Dungeon magazines. Remember?
PS: I looked to see if there was already a thread on this and I couldn't find one, if there is, my apologies.
Yeah, it's pretty odd, without giving a reason. Arguably you have the right to the product purchased, along with the number of downloads that are made available to you?
Either way, I am sure someone will let us know soon enough why this has been done, or at least undo it.
My first thought was "stop people from getting illegal copies of PDFs," but people are bound to just scan everything anyway (they already do for things without an official PDF). The guess that they might intend to sell them themselves is a logical possibility. Another guess is that they might be changing the PDFs in some drastic way and don't want to deal with people who "just bought the un-updated one" or something. I'm not sure what to make of it.
Does anybody know - Is this an across the board thing from WOTC covering all sellers of authorised PDFs of their material or is it just affecting RPGNOW?
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I've bought a number from RPGNow. Originally I was told I could download as many times as I wanted to forever. When they merged with DTRPG it went to 5 downloads per product and contact them if I needed more. And now apparently WotC is trying to pull the plug on old downloads. That should not be possible under the contracts rpgnow should have had with them but I don't have the specifics.
I really hope I will still be able to get old edition pdfs, there are a ton I still want to get.
What gets to me (not too much of course, but a bit) is that I've already had a couple evenings of gaming saved by RPGNow's convenient "Download it again if you need it again" feature. I haven't had to do it with any WotC book yet, but I know it's only a matter of time. And now I know that's off the table. Guess I just take better care of my folders from now on
I don't see anywhere whether the old TSR stuff is effected by this. Paizo, which also sells the old TSR stuff, doesn't have a similar statement up.
If the TSR stuff is effected by this, it'd really suck. It's really the only .pdf's I buy and I could completely see WotC deciding not to make them available again. (There's supposedly no market for OOP D&D products, afterall.)
If they are still available, I think I'm going to buy a parsle full of them that I've been putting off. I've been too complacent, thinking they'll be available forever.
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How can they stop you getting copies of PDFs you have already purchased????????
One of the two major reasons that I bought WotC/TSR stuff in PDF form was specifically because I knew that RPGNow archived my past purchases for easy retrieval in case of hardware failure on my end. If WotC is forcing OBS to make those past purchases unavailable, well, 'em.
If this does come to pass, somebody up in Seattle needs to credit me for my past purchases of WotC product that still have downloads remaining. Changing an agreement after somebody purchases things might be legal but it's still a load of horse pucky.
[Edit: As for anti-piracy issues, I think all of the WotC/TSR PDFs that I've downloaded from RPGNow (even the old scans) have an embedded watermark with my name in them. This makes piracy more trouble than it's worth.]
I'm more inclined to think it's a financial decision (as in "We'd make more money if we sold them ourselves") than it is a panicky anti-piracy decision because some executive's kid found a pirated PHB2 on 4chan.
I'm 99.9% sure it's because of PDF piracy. People can download all of WoTC's books on PDF AND Dragon and Dungeon magazines by torrent in less than 15-20 minutes. That's what....$800-$1000? I'm sure that's hurting them badly.
I don't see anywhere whether the old TSR stuff is effected by this. Paizo, which also sells the old TSR stuff, doesn't have a similar statement up.
If the TSR stuff is effected by this, it'd really suck. It's really the only .pdf's I buy and I could completely see WotC deciding not to make them available again. (There's supposedly no market for OOP D&D products, afterall.)
If they are still available, I think I'm going to buy a parsle full of them that I've been putting off. I've been too complacent, thinking they'll be available forever.
From the WotC forums:
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanB
Note that this isn't just on current 4E pdfs. I can't re-download any of my old purchased 1e/2e PDFs anymore either.
You know, by this point you'd have thought someone at WotC would have raised their hand and said something to the tune of "Guys we seriously need to work on getting a better image of ourselves out there," but no not really a big concern apparently..
I'm more inclined to think it's a financial decision (as in "We'd make more money if we sold them ourselves") than it is a panicky anti-piracy decision because some executive's kid found a pirated PHB2 on 4chan.
-O
I bet you're right, but this move will have no effect. In fact, I bet it increases the amount of books that are pirated; harder to feel bad about downloading a book via bittorrent if their is no way to buy it.
Yeah a while back I remember they had a survey and one of the questions was about interest in discounted books available for purchase on the wizards site.
I think this may be part of that. They have an online "ordering" system that can deliver electronic content. Why share the proceeds with someone else I guess? But we shall see. Perhaps Mr Rouse wil be along to quell any fears shortly?
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I think we can just add this to the list of examples of how WotC is becoming more like TSR. It seems like every month WotC gives me another reason to dislike their company. It's already reaching the point to where I don't really want to buy any of their products anymore.
Well, after some searching, I assume that all of the hubbub has something to do with this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WotC Press Release 03/06/09
In conjunction with the Retailer Rewards program, Wizards of the Coast will also release a new Internet Sales Policy on April 6. The new policy will have clear guidelines for online sales of Wizards’ product, and requires that retailers register with Wizards by signing an Authorized Internet Dealer Agreement.
It may be that OBS didn't want to enter into such an agreement. This reminds me a lot of the old GW tactics used to 'support' brick and mortar stores.
Regardless of who is ultimately to blame for this catastrophic blow to public relations, I know that somebody is going to be losing a few customers over this.
I don't see how this affects pirated content. People can and will scan anything (and if there are a lot of people interested on something, it is probably in the net mere hours after release). And whether they decide to sell the PDFs themselves in whatever price, I still cannot like them doing this to people who bought with a certain expectation of service. Is this affecting all online stores though or just RPGNow? Maybe there is a less obvious reason for this.
Uhm... I just checked out Drivethru and RPGNow, and I can buy WOTC products, still.
When does this go into effect?
(I got as far as checkout, I didn't actually try to buy anything, but if you can add them to your cart, I don't see why you can't buy...)
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I'm 99.9% sure it's because of PDF piracy. People can download all of WoTC's books on PDF AND Dragon and Dungeon magazines by torrent in less than 15-20 minutes. That's what....$800-$1000? I'm sure that's hurting them badly.
Then you'd be 99.9% wrong.
I'm positive that the staff at WotC are geeky enough to realise the futility and backlash of such a gesture.
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