Samuel Leming
First Post
I’m Thinking of Giving 4e Another Shot
I’m thinking about giving D&D 4e another chance. I’ve tried to play it three times and attempted to DM it once, but playing the system as is doesn’t really match up very well with my play style. Now that most of the blatant omissions have been covered by the PH2 & MM2 I’m willing to take another look. What I’m going to try to do with this thread is to go over what I think needs to be house ruled in order to make the game fit and to get some advice from others with similar play styles on how they’ve managed to make use of 4e.
Play Style
When I play a RPG I make decisions for my character based upon what I think my character would do given the information he has in the game world situation he finds himself. That’s my goal as a player and how I have fun in these kind of games. Pursuing my own rules related goals is something that will occasionally happen, but it’s not why I play role playing games. When I was introduced to D&D back in 1977 it was sold to me on the concepts of exploration and pretending to be a fantastic character living in a fantastic world. This is the style the GNS folks have referred to as 'simulationism', but it’s always just been regular role playing to me. This is always how I played, how most of the groups I’ve gamed with over the last thirty some years have played and I know there must be at least a few others like me left here on EN World.
Martial Powers
There are many topics I would like to address, but I’ve got to start somewhere. Since the martial powers system is one of the first mackerels that slaps your suspension of disbelieve in the face I may as well start with it. It comes down to player decisions vs. character decisions. As it’s set up in the rules it’s the player that chooses to use a power such as Steel Serpent Strike based upon game tactical needs rather then the fighter choosing to press his advantage. If this 'power' is based on martial ability the fighter should be able to attempt Steel Serpent Strike however many times he needs to. As an encounter power it just doesn’t make sense in that context for the game world as it is. I need some way to justify this as a role playing decision rather than just a player tactical decision.
I’m sure I could make up some kind of bullcrap hand waving justification for why Steel Serpent Strike can only be used once per fight, but there are hundreds of these powers. I need to come of with a single unifying line of bull like the arcane spells have always had.
Ki
I’ve read here on EN World that the 4e designers have rejected the use of Ki as a power source. I think I can understand why. These martial powers are already 90% ki-like anyway. It would be just a combination of psionics and the martial power set.
So, good, this frees up the term for me to use. My solution is to replace the martial powers concept with the more mystical ki powers concept. Fighter, rogues & warlords become classes that have been trained in the mystical art of how to harness their internal ki. If a fighter decides to use his Spinning Sweep power then he’s expended his ki and can’t use that mystical power again until he rests. If he needs to knock another opponent down then he’ll have to stunt off of the system on page 42 of the DMG.
Rules as Physics
I’ve never been a rules as physics proponent. It’s a one way ticket down the bunny trail to Flatland, so that’s really not what I’m advocating here. What I’m trying to do is justify the explicit game decisions of 4e as character role playing decisions.
I’ve always regarded things like character levels and hit points as abstractions used to speed up play. They’re easy enough to justify and I’m used to justifying them so I don’t sweat them.
Treasure Parcels
Treasure parcels don’t work and will never work for the type of game I want to run or play. This concept can’t be saved and must be thrown out completely.
If an encountered monster uses a bow and that monster is defeated then the party now has that bow. The creature and its bow doesn’t just evaporate leaving behind a scroll and a +2 dagger. The creature may indeed have those items and if it has items that can be used to defend itself then it will most likely do so.
It’s up to the players how they go about acquiring their loot. If they’re skillful and lucky they may end up with more then a level’s worth of swag. Good on them. As the DM I’ll adjust. If they’re having rotten luck or have made poor choices that leave them with insufficient money for their level then I’ll have to adjust for that too. It’s part of how D&D has been played historically and I’m not going to give up on suspension of disbelief by using regulated treasure packets.
There are dozens more topics to cover, but this post is getting too long. At least for one of my posts. I’ll continue with more topics on a later day(or expand on these topics based on discussion), but hopefully this first post will serve to start some positive discussion on how to modify 4e to work with old school type D&D role playing.
I’m thinking about giving D&D 4e another chance. I’ve tried to play it three times and attempted to DM it once, but playing the system as is doesn’t really match up very well with my play style. Now that most of the blatant omissions have been covered by the PH2 & MM2 I’m willing to take another look. What I’m going to try to do with this thread is to go over what I think needs to be house ruled in order to make the game fit and to get some advice from others with similar play styles on how they’ve managed to make use of 4e.
Play Style
When I play a RPG I make decisions for my character based upon what I think my character would do given the information he has in the game world situation he finds himself. That’s my goal as a player and how I have fun in these kind of games. Pursuing my own rules related goals is something that will occasionally happen, but it’s not why I play role playing games. When I was introduced to D&D back in 1977 it was sold to me on the concepts of exploration and pretending to be a fantastic character living in a fantastic world. This is the style the GNS folks have referred to as 'simulationism', but it’s always just been regular role playing to me. This is always how I played, how most of the groups I’ve gamed with over the last thirty some years have played and I know there must be at least a few others like me left here on EN World.
Martial Powers
There are many topics I would like to address, but I’ve got to start somewhere. Since the martial powers system is one of the first mackerels that slaps your suspension of disbelieve in the face I may as well start with it. It comes down to player decisions vs. character decisions. As it’s set up in the rules it’s the player that chooses to use a power such as Steel Serpent Strike based upon game tactical needs rather then the fighter choosing to press his advantage. If this 'power' is based on martial ability the fighter should be able to attempt Steel Serpent Strike however many times he needs to. As an encounter power it just doesn’t make sense in that context for the game world as it is. I need some way to justify this as a role playing decision rather than just a player tactical decision.
I’m sure I could make up some kind of bullcrap hand waving justification for why Steel Serpent Strike can only be used once per fight, but there are hundreds of these powers. I need to come of with a single unifying line of bull like the arcane spells have always had.
Ki
I’ve read here on EN World that the 4e designers have rejected the use of Ki as a power source. I think I can understand why. These martial powers are already 90% ki-like anyway. It would be just a combination of psionics and the martial power set.
So, good, this frees up the term for me to use. My solution is to replace the martial powers concept with the more mystical ki powers concept. Fighter, rogues & warlords become classes that have been trained in the mystical art of how to harness their internal ki. If a fighter decides to use his Spinning Sweep power then he’s expended his ki and can’t use that mystical power again until he rests. If he needs to knock another opponent down then he’ll have to stunt off of the system on page 42 of the DMG.
Rules as Physics
I’ve never been a rules as physics proponent. It’s a one way ticket down the bunny trail to Flatland, so that’s really not what I’m advocating here. What I’m trying to do is justify the explicit game decisions of 4e as character role playing decisions.
I’ve always regarded things like character levels and hit points as abstractions used to speed up play. They’re easy enough to justify and I’m used to justifying them so I don’t sweat them.
Treasure Parcels
Treasure parcels don’t work and will never work for the type of game I want to run or play. This concept can’t be saved and must be thrown out completely.
If an encountered monster uses a bow and that monster is defeated then the party now has that bow. The creature and its bow doesn’t just evaporate leaving behind a scroll and a +2 dagger. The creature may indeed have those items and if it has items that can be used to defend itself then it will most likely do so.
It’s up to the players how they go about acquiring their loot. If they’re skillful and lucky they may end up with more then a level’s worth of swag. Good on them. As the DM I’ll adjust. If they’re having rotten luck or have made poor choices that leave them with insufficient money for their level then I’ll have to adjust for that too. It’s part of how D&D has been played historically and I’m not going to give up on suspension of disbelief by using regulated treasure packets.
There are dozens more topics to cover, but this post is getting too long. At least for one of my posts. I’ll continue with more topics on a later day(or expand on these topics based on discussion), but hopefully this first post will serve to start some positive discussion on how to modify 4e to work with old school type D&D role playing.
