Roleplaying based penalties for Death. [Now with Examples!]

[Mistah J]

For my new campaign I've decided to remove the "death penalties" rule. No more -1 this, or negative level that once you come back from the beyond.

What I would like to do instead is something a little more RP based. I am thinking that when characters return from the dead, they do so in debt to a higher power - who let them come back.

In return, this higher power requires the character do complete a small task or favour. Until this is completed, the character finds themselves under a small compulsion. I am also looking for things that have no real mechanical component. Nothing rules based, just fluff or role-playing based.

An example here would be: A returned character must ensure that they are the last person to be healed after combat. This lasts until their 100th prayer to deity X (a prayer = a small service 1 hour long).

So I am looking for feedback, any issues you think might come up and I should watch out for, and most of all suggestions of both compulsions and the ways to remove them.

Oh, I'll mention now that for my game, the deity doing this is of a highly [Good] nature. That should be taken into account.

Thanks!

 

[Nifft]

So I am looking for feedback, any issues you think might come up and I should watch out for

Unfortunately, in my experience "Roleplaying Penalties" don't equate at all to mechanical penalties. The one simply isn't appropriate as a substitution for the other.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Aberzanzorax]

I think this is a great idea.

While I don't have specific advice, I think any roleplaying penalty is more specific to a given group than a mechanical penalty.

What is your group like?

 

[Mistah J]

Unfortunately, in my experience "Roleplaying Penalties" don't equate at all to mechanical penalties. The one simply isn't appropriate as a substitution for the other.

Cheers, -- N

That is a point I had considered - but I compared it to things like the Book of Exalted Deeds, where some of the feats and spells are a little more powerful than normal in trade of some heavy RP requirements.

What is your group like?

Good question! If you mean the PCs, I have this:
1 Rogue (faceman/gambler)
1 Sorcerer (shadow illusion/enchantment)
1 Druid
1 Monk (with a greatsword)
1 Monk/Paladin

If you mean the players themselves, I have a pretty mature group that have been gaming friends for years. We focus a little more on the RP/story telling aspects rather than the combat or dungeon crawl.

Hope that helps!

 

[wingsandsword]

Unfortunately, in my experience "Roleplaying Penalties" don't equate at all to mechanical penalties. The one simply isn't appropriate as a substitution for the other.

I think this is highly dependent on the group in question.

One issue I had with the 3e design philosophy was the idea that roleplaying penalties are inherently bad ways to balance mechanics and to always be avoided. It's extremely hard to stamp out for mass production like that, because roleplaying are a lot easier to ignore, but something homebrewed for your own group it can work well if you know the players will actually RP it. I've seen it work well, if the players and the DM are of the same mindset.

When it comes to a roleplaying penalty to death, I think of of the new Battlestar Galactica, where the humanoid Cylons could resurrect continuously. Resurrection was seen by some as a painful and disorienting process that left some with chronic phantom pains, and was seen by others as strangely euphoric and addictive leading to vague prophetic (and sometimes heretical) visions leading them to become reckless or outright suicidal so they could keep seeing the visions and experiencing the bliss (and drawing increasing negative attention for their heretical statements regarding what they see after they die). It made for good TV, and could make for some fun roleplaying if the PCs are into it.

 

[Umbran]

Unfortunately, in my experience "Roleplaying Penalties" don't equate at all to mechanical penalties. The one simply isn't appropriate as a substitution for the other.

Yeah, but there's a solid question as to whether death in game should have a mechanical penalty. The whole point of having a penalty for death is that it motivates players to avoid character death, right?

Well, what motivates your players depends on the players. If your group is heavy on the tactical wargame or powergame side of things, then mechanical penalty is probably a sensible motivator. If they are more story-oriented, and don't give a hoot if they are a level lower or have lost a point of con, then the mechanical solution won't have the desired effect.

And, honestly, if you are the sort of DM who tailors encounters to the party, then the mechanical penalty is pretty meaningless, as you take that into account when you design your encounters.

There's a simple way to convert the "owe a service" into a mechanical penalty - the character either earns no experience until the service is completed, or earns no experience for the completion.

I've done what the OP has suggested in past games, in a slightly more complicated manner - if the party chooses to bring the character back, then they had to find a cleric capable of the deed. If the cleric agrees to it (which may take some doing, depending on the character to be brought back, and the cleric they find), the character must not only agree to come back, but must agree to a Geas/Quest imposed by the deity the cleric in question.

 

[hailstop]

I have wondered if the current penalties for death are actually 'bad' enough as it is. A -1 to rolls just doesn't seem that bad to me, and the amount that it costs to Raise Dead doesn't seem that bad (at least it didn't at 8th level anyways).

Besides, a -1 to attacks just adds more to the grind.

Actually, even beyond that, I've never even had someone lose 2 Death Saves before...

 

[Oni]

I've never understood D&D's weird fascination with punishing people for dying. I mean dying already sucks. I think for most players there is a correlation between their character dying and a sense of failure (unless it was a particularly good death). Most people I've played with seem rather attached to their characters and try to keep them from coming to too much harm. Besides when your character is dead, you the player are basically left with nothing to do, you've been taken out of the game, and frankly that's boring and sucks enough already without rubbing someones face in it.

Anyway I like the OP's idea since it has the potential to be more interesting than punitive. How about a religious relic that must be retrieved within in a certain time frame if the player wants to stay in the land of the living. What if the deity held a certain fragment of the person in questions soul or personality until they redeemed so many souls. If they have a certain personality flaw (lecherous, thieving, liar, et c.) they suffer a minor curse/compulsion as incentive to correct their behavior until they can get it removed somehow. Things that should be fun and interesting and add to your campaign rather than just being annoying and a drag.

 

[Dausuul]

That is a point I had considered - but I compared it to things like the Book of Exalted Deeds, where some of the feats and spells are a little more powerful than normal in trade of some heavy RP requirements.

Since the Book of Exalted Deeds was well known for being broken as all get-out, this is probably not the best example.

My immediate question is - so, this is what the PC "has" to do. What happens if s/he doesn't? The resurrection is rescinded and the character dies again? Are you prepared to follow through with that? Because if you're not, it's highly likely you'll be called on it. Players have a nose for when the DM is bluffing.

My own approach at the moment is to have resurrection rituals turn the subjects into revenants... yeah, you can come back, but you come back wrong. (Mechanically, you re-stat your character as a revenant from the ground up; you can and probably will choose a new class, feats, et cetera.) In my campaign worlds, the gods meant death to be permanent, and anything that brings people back from the dead is seriously bad news.

 

[Wombat]

due to the games that I play, we have the ultimate penalty -- when you die, you are dead, period.

We don't have resurrection or it's variations.