Warfare By Any Other Means

[Jack7]

Fight like you mean it, not like it's an accident...

Disclaimer: I don't want this to turn into a thread or series of postings dealing with any particular edition of D&D. It doesn't even have to deal with D&D at all, though it might be applicable to D&D. It is really just about interesting combat mechanic methods. Already existing, experimental, or theoretical.

This thread is about interesting Combat Resolution Methods in gaming and Role Play Gaming that don't necessarily involve dice or any other means or method or device of randomization for engaging in game-combat. Or alternately about combat resolution methods that only partially rely upon dice rolls, or some similar method, to achieve the same effect.

So if you've seen a (combat) system that doesn't use dice, or cards, or whatever the case may be, or you have developed one of your own, then present it for us to look over and analyze and then let everyone discuss it.

I/we have a system (which is not static, I'd be happy to improve it if I see something worth pursuing) that we've used for years but before presenting that to everyone else (my system) I'd like to see some other ideas. I will say this, in my system fighting monsters is different than fighting men.

I'll get back to this as my work schedule allows but I'm looking forward to reading your ideas, and debates, and arguments on the matter.

To get some ideas started, these are the main problems I considered in developing my system:

Weaponry
Reach
Close Quarters Combat versus Stand-Off or At a Distance Engagement
Mounted Combat
Damage Modifications
Formation Fighting
Maneuver and Movement
Forcing Misses
Technique and Tactical Fighting
Skill and Experience
Fighting Monsters versus Fighting Men
Armor and how it actually Operates
First Strikes
Rapidity of Combat
Initiative and Ambush


Good luck ladies and gentlemen.

Jack.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I don't know if anyone remembers the microgames by Metagaming. One of my favourites was Warp War (some details here https://www.nobleknight.com/Product...anufacturerID_E__A_CategoryID_E__A_GenreID_E_ )

One of the big attractions of the game was that it had a diceless combat resolution mechanic. Each side builds spaceships with certain values for beams, shields, power plant, drives and missile tubes.

When you enter combat with someone, each round you choose how to divide your power between your shields, your beam, your drives and firing missiles. Missiles can be given any drive value.

You also choose whether you will take an Attacking posture, a Defending posture, or a Retreating posture.

You then reveal your posture and the relative difference between your drive values are calculated - and the results looked up on a matrix, which might result in an escape (if retreating), a miss, a hit or a hit +x damage.

Screen value is subtracted from damage, which is then applied to the ships, and then a new round starts.

Tech level is added to the damage of beams and missiles. It is also added to the defensive value of screens.

Firing
Ship        DRIVE
Tactics     DIFFERENCE     ATTACK     DODGE     RETREAT

   A        -3 or less     Miss       Miss      Escapes
    T       -1, -2         Hit        Miss      Escapes
     T      0, +1          Hit +2     Miss      Miss
      A     +2             Hit +1     Hit +1    Miss
       C    +3, +4         Miss       Hit       Hit
        K   +5 or more     Miss       Miss      Miss

   D        -4 or less     Miss       Miss      Escapes
    O       -2, -3         Miss       Hit       Escapes
     D      0, -1          Hit        Hit       Escapes
      G     +1, +2         Hit        Miss      Escapes
       E    +3 or more     Miss       Miss      Escapes

  RE        -2 or less     Miss       Miss      Escapes
    TRE     -1, 0          Hit        Miss      Escapes
       AT   +1 or more     Miss       Miss      Escapes

I'm sure something could be worked out for an RPG game based on this kind of idea.

Cheers

 

[Jack7]

I really like that idea PS.

I'm not gonna go into real detail regarding my RPG diceless combat system right now but basically you create a value pool from abilities (like Strength) and capabilities (plus to hit, etc.) and then convert that pool into a big numbers score. Then the player secretly divides how he will use his total score, offensively, defensively, or both, and the DM does the same, the results are compared, and then the combat is resolved by comparison.

This turns the encounter into a strategic, or in individual fights - a tactical combat exercise, versus a modified randomization encounter. You can throw in things like attempts to hit specific targets, like to stab at the heart (intended lethal strikes), critical hits, special maneuvers, and combat skills and feats just like in regular D&D, or other RPGs. Or you can choose not to contest a combat (a single round), just take the damage issued by your opponent, and spend all of your combat value on offensive power (to kill quickly if you think you can), or conversely spend very little on offense, and concentrate entirely on defensive for maneuver and repositioning for a better strike later on, or you can use your combat power for non-lethal fighting, can use it to escape, evade, or make a fighting retreat, can go all out to try and kill with a single strike or small number of attacks, or devote it to other things, like magic use, etc, etc. And you can pull tricks and tactical maneuvers and stuff, and mimic different states of intensity in the fight (depending on how you allocate your resources). But as each set of combat rounds (each single encounter actually) proceed your number pool depletes, mimicking exhaustion (fighting is extremely exhausting, especially hand to hand lethal fighting for your life), so that if a fight goes on intensely and for a long time it becomes a sort of personal combat attrition/exhaustion game as well. So it is, depending on who or what you are fighting, to retain a sort of reserve pool of strength that you can later use like adrenaline at the end of a fight to overwhelm a similarly exhausted opponent.

This lets fights proceed in a very different way than merely strike-wound-counterstrike, strike-wound-counterstrike, and a long slog of a fight til somebody eventually drops. (In this way fights can become very different things as they go along. It might start out as a quick kill fight, then become later on an attrition/exhausting battle if both opponents survive the initial attempts at quick lethality.) It's similar in some ways to the "pooled fighting systems" which I also like, but the numbers pool is not developed by die roll but by the natural and innate abilities of the character. Similar to what you were describing above with the Warp War (which I played if I'm remembering correctly, my buddy had it, seems like it was European) space combat game.

Rather than count hit points and keep track of other combat things the old fashioned way we have a single Combat Sheet similar to the old Star Fleet Battles allocation sheet for every character (and a modified one for monsters and NPCs), with different categories of how you want to distribute your combat strength. Then that is stored in a little reusable plastic slip and you just take a water erasable marker and write down how you'll use your combat power for that round. Offensive/Defensive/Maneuver, and it also keeps up with how much armor reduces your injuries, weapons type damage, your hit points (we don't use hit points actually, we have another method but you could just put hit points there if you wished), and so forth and so on. It's reusable and no harder to fight than is Star Fleet Battles type combat encounters (though SFB used dice to mimic hits or misses and sometimes damage, we don't, we use comparisons vaguely like you described with your example), and it is far more tactical and strategic than dice based combat because you contrail how you use your combat resources, and maneuver, and so forth. It can be adapted and adopted into practically any RPG of course, you'd just have to use whatever abilities (Strength, constitution, Dexterity, etc) are common to that game.

Anyway that is our main method of combat. The basic method against humans and humanoid opponents.
Fighting monsters is a different proposition.

I'm thinking though about taking what you mentioned and applying that to my diceless system to develop a new damage allocation system. I already have one tied to the intensity of the attack (attack intensity on offense helps determine how much damage is done to an opponent, minus defenses like armor) but I like the comparison idea if it can be simplified enough.

I also allow my players to choose other methods of combat if they so wish during any particular engagement against any particular foe, but they have to use the same method throughout the fight.

To open this discussion up a little I'm gonna also list some other methods of combat we use. None of these are strictly diceless, like the system I mentioned above, but they all modify or mitigate or minimize die use, except the standard method.

1. Damage Only Die roll, diceless to hit, dice for damage

2. Mitigated Die Rolls

3. Mixed Methods, Die Rolls plus other Means

4. Other Means (cards, value based figures, etc.)

5. Standard Method - regular type D&D or RPG system.




Well, I gotta go. Had to write fast and I'm sure I made alot of mistakes. Got work to finish then hav'ta pick up my kid from camp. It's been a red-hot summer so far.

See ya.