General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
Honestly, every Ranger i've seen so far has been an archer. A little love for the melee Ranger is welcome.
Again, this is just IME.
My E as well. I've created a TWF ranger, in my catalog of characters, but I've never seen one played in 4E. Every 4E ranger I've seen in action was an archer.
__________________ Ari Marmell
aka
Mouseferatu
--Rodent of the Dark
Honestly, every Ranger i've seen so far has been an archer. A little love for the melee Ranger is welcome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouseferatu
My E as well. I've created a TWF ranger, in my catalog of characters, but I've never seen one played in 4E. Every 4E ranger I've seen in action was an archer.
The rangers in my groups are both TWF guys. One was originally designed as Archer, but with the other striker of the group being a Warlock, the player switched to TWF. Unwilling at first, but now he gets this certain gleem in his eyes when Elrohir draws his swords...
Is it possible that one of the reasons for the Archer's popularity is that he's the only class that really rocks the bow? That's one of my pet peeves.
So, are you saying that you would like to see someone do for the archery style ranger what the swordmage did for the fighter? A witch hunter or magestalker?
__________________ -Kaodi
Good name in man and woman, dear my lord,
Is the immediate jewel of their souls.
Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing;
'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands;
But he that filches from me my good name
Robs me of that which not enriches him
And makes me poor indeed.
-Iago, Shakespeare's Othello, Act III. Scene III. Lines 180-186.
While other classes do have ranged attacks, no other class rocks the bow like an archery ranger does. Does your vision of your character include a bow & arrow? Better at least multiclass in your future.
So, are you saying that you would like to see someone do for the archery style ranger what the swordmage did for the fighter? A witch hunter or magestalker?
Putting this behind a spoiler, because it's a tangent.
Spoiler:
I honestly was hoping the Avenger would be the Witch Hunter, ala WFRPG/Warhammer Online.
But I just like ranged weapons, and it seems like the Ranger is the only guy that gets to bust them out to their most useful effect. Granted, the Bard, Artificer have builds that facilitate ranged weapons, but some are just okay and they're very magical (which I Like, but I'd enjoy a martial counterpoint too). The archer rogue is less potent, because getting CA at range is much more tricky. So the ranger is the only guy that really rocks ranged weapons.
I felt that the Warlord should have ranged weapon powers; a guy who leads from the back ranks, firing his bow while saying "You, go over there!" Instead the Warlord is the guy in Front saying "You, come here!"
I've pondered things like ranged defenders* (both with weapons and magic), and a ranged (magical) Avenger. Nothing ever really came of fruition, and even if it did, I'd be making it just because it doesn't exist and I like it.
*Yes I know, a ranged defender would act like a controller. But I had worked out a concept of how it might work.
So what do folks think of the powers in the article, since those have yet to be discussed?
I've seen only one Ranger in play, a TWF that put lots of points into both str and dex so he could shoot a bow whenever the situation warranted it.
The abundance of archers might have something to do with Rangers being the only ranged striker that uses a weapon. Then again, it might be because of LotR.
Most of the powers seem to be "Twin Strike +." Though I do like the counter-attacking and misdirecting powers.
__________________ If "A" is broken, that isn't a valid reason for "B" to be so, even if they vary in degree.
Tactician style Gamer, or so I have been told.
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."-Albert Einstein
Last edited by Leatherhead; 13th July 2009 at 10:15 AM..
As a bit of a meta-note, the level 6 utility doing psychic damage follows a trend I've been noticing for rangers and martial classes in general. There seem to be a lot more doing psychic damage from being just THAT scary.
I'm hoping this is testing the waters for a martial controller type class that works on similar principles, probably by PHB4. I also think this has something to do with the demise of Ki. Before, such a power would have been the Ki power source, but now Martial can feel the love too.
As far as I understand it, that build is underpowered especially in comparison to the TWF ranger (the TWF ranger in my group does awesome amounts of damage).
But being ranged in itself is a problem. 4E is a game where every character carries his or her healing, so any character who isn't in the frontline taking hits for the group is a weak link for a party.
To make ranged combat truly work in the 4E context, you really have to plan for some ability for the archer to transfer his or her healing surges to the front-line troopers.
So playing an archer ranger is probably going to work out okay in a group with an Artificer (haven't looked in detail, but I seem to have read one of his stchticks is being able to transfer surges).
As far as I understand it, that build is underpowered especially in comparison to the TWF ranger (the TWF ranger in my group does awesome amounts of damage).
But being ranged in itself is a problem. 4E is a game where every character carries his or her healing, so any character who isn't in the frontline taking hits for the group is a weak link for a party.
To make ranged combat truly work in the 4E context, you really have to plan for some ability for the archer to transfer his or her healing surges to the front-line troopers.
So playing an archer ranger is probably going to work out okay in a group with an Artificer (haven't looked in detail, but I seem to have read one of his stchticks is being able to transfer surges).
But with just the PHB classes? Nah.
Because the CO boards base their "knowledge" and "ratings" on math and dps, instead of actual play. I can assure you the archer ranger is a far cry from underpowered. In fact, it may be the best striker around. And when I say best, I am not talking about dps, but overall steady chance, chance to die, utility for group, etc.
Seriously, saying an arched ranger doesn't work with the other PBH classes makes me wonder if you have 1) played one 2) seen one in play or 3) picked up the wrong game and are playing Heroquest 4e. Your analysis about healing surges is borderline funny though, but it lacks perspective.
__________________
355 hours played
Gnoguh, human fighter/cleric (kensei->adamantine soldier)
Carric, elf cleric/ranger (radiant servant->saint)
Torn, tiefling wizard/cleric (divine oracle->sages of ages)
Truxas, human feylock/bard (feytouched->feyliege)
Tagron, human rogue (daggermaster->deadly trickster) 21th level Musings of an Epic Virgin
As far as I understand it, that build is underpowered especially in comparison to the TWF ranger (the TWF ranger in my group does awesome amounts of damage).
As far as I understand it, that build is underpowered especially in comparison to the TWF ranger (the TWF ranger in my group does awesome amounts of damage).
Ranger and Rogues are the only ranged strikers that use weapons, and Archer Rangers are far easier to build and use than a ranged Rogue. Weapon powers tend to do more damage than implement powers, and some people just like to play snipers.
Quote:
But being ranged in itself is a problem. 4E is a game where every character carries his or her healing, so any character who isn't in the frontline taking hits for the group is a weak link for a party.
Melee bias is a problem, and I do think this is one of the major downsides to the healing surge mechanic, but archers aren't the only characters that use range. Even a group with a Warden and a Fighter isn't going to prevent all of the monsters from attacking the back line all of the time. Beastmaster Rangers could have helped solve this (at least for the Ranger) by putting in some ranged beast powers, but they ended up more as flanking buddy for melee-Rangers.
The Artificer is a great class for helping to spread healing surges around, and ultimately I would like to see a ranged defender and more mechanics similar to healing infusion and aegis of shielding. Stationary or low-movement melee combat and the "wall of meat" style of combat is restricting and a little boring after a while. I prefer combat that takes place in dynamic environments, like flying on the back of monsters. Unfortunately they tend to be extremely unfair and unfun when the party has melee-focused classes like the Fighter, Warlord, and Barbarian.
As far as I understand it, that build is underpowered especially in comparison to the TWF ranger (the TWF ranger in my group does awesome amounts of damage).
But being ranged in itself is a problem. 4E is a game where every character carries his or her healing, so any character who isn't in the frontline taking hits for the group is a weak link for a party.
To make ranged combat truly work in the 4E context, you really have to plan for some ability for the archer to transfer his or her healing surges to the front-line troopers.
So playing an archer ranger is probably going to work out okay in a group with an Artificer (haven't looked in detail, but I seem to have read one of his stchticks is being able to transfer surges).
But with just the PHB classes? Nah.
The game I run has an Archer Ranger, and not only does he consistently put out the most damage, but he's saved the party from a TPK on several occasions already by turning the tide single-handedly. Of course he's the only Striker in the party, so I'd expect him to put out the most damage, and it doesn't hurt that the player is gorram gifted at rolling natural 20's (it's just uncanny!).
The rest of the party consists of a Warlord, Wizard, Paladin, and NPC Fighter m/c Cleric, and thus far we've never had any issues with "transferring healing surges"....
__________________ "I am the soul of honor, kindness, mercy, and goodness. Trust me in all things." Corwin to Dara, The Guns of Avalon by Roger Zelazny
BTW, there's a reason, why defenders have more healing surges per day.
Also, not all monsters have only melee attacks.
I don't quite understand, how the TWF Ranger can be more powerful than the Archer Ranger, really. The Archer Ranger usually gets two attacks, both with a powerful weapon, while the TWF Ranger usually gets two attacks with two one-handed weapons. That alone should put archery in favor, plus the ability to target anything, anywhere on the battlefield (LoS given, of course) with the incredible range of the longbow. I'm not aware of any super-abilities, that only work with TWF (and Blade Cascade has been nerfed ).
Bye
Thanee
__________________
“In our world, immortality is not for the living. The legend lives on!”
In Memoriam Dave Arneson († April 7th, 2009) & Gary Gygax († March 4th, 2008).
Wondering what the Dungeon Tiles are like? Take a look here (up to DU5 Sinister Woods).
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
