General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
Particularly interesting tidbit:
1) The PHB 3 is all about expanding options, and that seems to be continued for further PHBs. Power Points are the first example on how they will put a twist to the system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Mearls
You can expect that, going forward, future Player's Handbooks will broaden the game in similar ways. It's nice to have an accessible system for the first core rulebook, because that lets anyone play a fighter or wizard without worrying about mastering a more elaborate rules set. As we move forward, though, we can push the complexity and diversity of options.
2) They do have power guidelines on what type of damage and what type of effect are appropriate for a power of a given level and frequency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Schubert
When determining the number of power points a character should have have, we created a simple equation in which two power points approximately equaled one "[W]" in power. Of course, the equation isn't limited simply to damage output, as we've already established our general guidelines for how much damage a power could do when the various conditions such as dazed or blinded are applied with them.
3) They are looking to not just add the "mechanics" of Psionics, but also integrating it in the world.
The "story" of the generic POL setting is that Psionics always existed, but was weak. Monks have been able to utilize it the longest, but now Psions and others come around. The strengthening of the Psionics is a counter-reaction of the world to the strengthening of the Far Realms.
We have heard something similar regarding the Wilden, by the way. So in case anyone has missed it - the Far Realms is out to get us!
Thoughts of the Arch Chancellor - My weblog on EN World - containing game related material, like: house rules, design theories, reviews, play reports, adventure ideas
Secret Member of <Think we would just hide our secret with a spoiler tag, eh?>
I don't like it, but apparently they have some understanding of why I don't like it. I am also not looking forward to having more classes with new mechanics. In 3.x they seemed to release a new mechanic for every splatbook, and it got a bit bloated after a while.
One of the worries I have with 4e psionics popped up at me while trying to build a Psion. They don't necessarily have to take higher level powers (and can keep their augment costs low), because they are a controller and their job isn't to deal damage. According to the brief explanation of the PP formula: A psionic striker who uses PP might have to take new and more expensive powers to keep up their damage compared to other strikers, but I don't see it as a must for any other role.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustrum_Ridcully
3) They are looking to not just add the "mechanics" of Psionics, but also integrating it in the world.
The "story" of the generic POL setting is that Psionics always existed, but was weak. Monks have been able to utilize it the longest, but now Psions and others come around. The strengthening of the Psionics is a counter-reaction of the world to the strengthening of the Far Realms.
We have heard something similar regarding the Wilden, by the way. So in case anyone has missed it - the Far Realms is out to get us!
I get the impression that they intended psionics to not be integrated into the world, and have it stick out like a sore thumb, for those reasons.
__________________ If "A" is broken, that isn't a valid reason for "B" to be so, even if they vary in degree.
Tactician style Gamer, or so I have been told.
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."-Albert Einstein
I'm on the other side from Leatherhead. I love that they're breaking the rigid requirements of the powers system going forward. The fact that every class feels pretty much exactly the same is a huge negative for me, because it's tremendously dull and uninteresting.
I hope we might get things half as diverse as 3e. This new psionics motif is great and interesting and goes a long way for it. Maybe not all the way as much as I'd like, but really a huge leap forward compared to the PHB2.
Part of me really hopes they have guidelines for applying this to existing classes (perhaps in the DMG3?) so that I can break the system on individual classes rather than making players take a smaller, niche class in order to feel different from the rest of the crowd.
I just fear that now in a few years, no one's going to be playing a Fighter, or a Rogue, or a Wizard, because there will be new classes with such varying power systems.
This new psionics motif is great and interesting and goes a long way for it. Maybe not all the way as much as I'd like, but really a huge leap forward compared to the PHB2.
Part of me really hopes they have guidelines for applying this to existing classes (perhaps in the DMG3?) so that I can break the system on individual classes rather than making players take a smaller, niche class in order to feel different from the rest of the crowd.
Applying this to the old classes would be a nightmare balance-wise, unless they were designed with the new mechanics in mind, which i doubt.
A complete rewrite of each class is much more likely. And more profitable too. I would probably bite if the "new" classes eschewed the fire-and-forget powers.
__________________
_ Ceterum censeo the encounter/daily power system is an unholy blight upon D&Ddom
5e can't come soon enough
Last edited by lutecius; 13th July 2009 at 05:48 PM..
Applying this to the old classes would be a nightmare balance-wise, unless they were designed with the new mechanics in mind, which i doubt.
A complete rewrite of each class is much more likely. And more profitable too. I would probably bite if the "new" classes eschewed the fire-and-forget powers.
Would you be willing to pay $9.95 a month for such re-writes?
I never felt the classes were too similar. But apparently that's a minority view.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustrum_Ridcully
3) They are looking to not just add the "mechanics" of Psionics, but also integrating it in the world.
I had lunch with a guy from WotC a few weeks ago. I brought up the Elemental power source, and said, "Y'know, many classes are doing elemental damage. So what's left for the Elemental guys?"
His response was (paraphrasing), "We haven't designed the Elemental classes yet. But when we do, we're going to come up with a Story for them. And that Story is going to reflect their mechanics."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drkfathr1
I just fear that now in a few years, no one's going to be playing a Fighter, or a Rogue, or a Wizard, because there will be new classes with such varying power systems.
I highly doubt this.
1) You have folks who don't want to play any magic guys. Fighters and rogues are just guys with a sword and their muscles, that's it, and that appeals to some people.
2) Regardless of varying power systems, it can't diminish the power of the PHB1 classes. The fighter is THE defender. The rogue is a nasty, nasty damage dealer. The Ranger seems to be one of the most popular strikers (and the only guy who really rocks the ranged weapon).
3) Some people have favorite classes, regardless of the new systems coming down the pike. The first chance I get, I'm going to play a rogue, because I freaking love rogues.
4) Talking about 3e a second, you still had tons of fighters and rogues even after Book of Nine Swords came out. Tons of mages even after Tome of Magic came out. And the slew of other classes.
5) For people to play the Brand New classes of Varying Power Systems, folks have to buy the books. You have many who are reluctant to spend more money, or don't have the cash, etc etc.
Applying this to the old classes would be a nightmare balance-wise, unless they were designed with the new mechanics in mind, which i doubt.
A complete rewrite of each class is much more likely. And more profitable too. I would probably bite if the "new" classes eschewed the fire-and-forget powers.
The Power books provide a clear opportunity for WotC to release more mechanically sophisticated builds of existing classes. The Battlerager fighter and the Beastmaster ranger are already two examples of builds that are more mechanically involved than the PH1 builds.
I just fear that now in a few years, no one's going to be playing a Fighter, or a Rogue, or a Wizard, because there will be new classes with such varying power systems.
I think it will be possible to introduce new mechanics into old classes simply by publishing new alternate class features, such as the battlerage vigor fighter and the beastmaster ranger in Martial Power. I think it is entirely possible to have a "fighter" with mostly at-will abilities and an augment-like mechanic for encounter and/or daily powers (using adrenaline points and/or luck points) released in PH4 or Martial Power 2.
The psionics is a reaction to the Far Realm story is similar but different to the story from Eberron where it is made clear that psionics comes from the Far Realm/Xoriat.
A lot of 4E seems Eberron Inspired*.
* Yes, that's a bad Eberron pun
__________________ stonegod -- LEB judge and spawn of Khyber since 2005 (Blog)
I think it will be possible to introduce new mechanics into old classes simply by publishing new alternate class features, such as the battlerage vigor fighter and the beastmaster ranger in Martial Power. I think it is entirely possible to have a "fighter" with mostly at-will abilities and an augment-like mechanic for encounter and/or daily powers (using adrenaline points and/or luck points) released in PH4 or Martial Power 2.
The psionics is a reaction to the Far Realm story is similar but different to the story from Eberron where it is made clear that psionics comes from the Far Realm/Xoriat.
Yeah, and personally I think that would have been a *much* better story to tell. Psionics has always been around, because the Far Realm has always been around, but for some reason the Far Realm is encroaching more on reality, resulting in the rise of Psionics. The encroachment corrupts some, but a few heroes (like the Monks have always done) can learn to use it's power against it.
A *much* better story IMO than some nebulous "reaction of the world against the Far Realm". Isn't that what the Primal power source represents as well (maybe not specifically against the Far Realm)?
I think that if I see the Far Realm getting tapped much more, I am going to start calling it the Near Realm. Ubiquitous and mysterious to not mix well.
__________________ -Kaodi
Good name in man and woman, dear my lord,
Is the immediate jewel of their souls.
Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing;
'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands;
But he that filches from me my good name
Robs me of that which not enriches him
And makes me poor indeed.
-Iago, Shakespeare's Othello, Act III. Scene III. Lines 180-186.
The psionics is a reaction to the Far Realm story is similar but different to the story from Eberron where it is made clear that psionics comes from the Far Realm/Xoriat.
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
