David Noonens blog and D&D 4e's roles.

[darjr]

Dave Noonan's Blog - Nnnooner!

David Noonan has been discussing the roles in D&D 4e. I have to catch up with his older posts, but I'm glad he's back to blogging.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Thanks for the link. This is a fascinating series.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

Nice walk through, interested to see where he's going with his alternatives.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Fascinating.

Some heroes are easy, but is Iron Man a tank or DPS? That's exactly the sort of question that'll launch a 20-page ENWorld thread.

aaaaaaaaaaand hilarious.

I like Noonan. I'm psyched to see what he's working on.

 

[pawsplay]

It's an interesting take. I have noticed on MMORPGs that, contrary to the conventional wisdom, it's quite possible to load up on a single role or archetype and be successful. Back in the day, on Everquest, I used to gather as many paladins as I could for nightly raids on the orcs... it was quite astounding. When it comes to groups missing roles, or to soloing, I think Dave hits the nail on the head when he observes that the most important role is the healer, because they eliminate inconvenient downtime. In City of Heroes, healers have diminished in importance as healing inspirations became more important, and at high level solo play, you can simply avoid getting hurt, and rely on inspirations or the Heal Self power or slotted up Rest to get back in the game quickly.

 

[ppaladin123]

Noonan's involvement in the story localization for Aion is one of the reasons I am so intrigued by this new MMO. I was impressed that they hired a real professional.

 

[wedgeski]

Hah! I saw the name "David Noonan" associated with Aion, but when I clicked on a page that purported to take me to his profile, it showed the picture of a trendy young buck in his 20's, not the bearded wisdom-dispensing one we have come to know and love. Defintiely bookmarked!

 

[Peraion Graufalke]

Wow, I thought his blog was dead. Thanks for the link!

 

[CapnZapp]

This is kind of late, but I don't have any blogger ID so I can't comment on his blog. Perhaps Dave comes here...

I really thought I'd find proto-tanks and proto-DPS lurking in the time-shrouded mists of 20th-century fantasy literature. But they're maddeningly elusive.

I think it's worthwhile to add that there's nothing inherent to tanks and DPS in fantays rpgs.

Take Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, for instance.

Let's say you can choose between playing a Soldier, a Thief, a Scribe and a Beggar*.

Soldier: you're a capable fighter. You can become the groups best ranged combatant (through a impressive handgun) and you will almost certainly be its best melee combatant (through either sword and shield, or a huge zweihander). You're the sturdiest combatant too, because your Weapon Skill can be used to parry, and because you know the Dodge skill almost noone else knows. You also wear sturdy armor, which in WFRP translates to more hit points in D&D.

Thief: There is none of the "striker" mentality over you. You are a "skill monkey" but those skills do not extend to open violence. Sure, inside a confusing city, you can play a game of cat and mouse, but on an open field you're hosed, pure and simple. You're not supposed to be a viable combatant - you're supposed to steal stuff and flee when detected. On the positive side, you at least expect trouble, so you might wear a leather jerkin.

Scribe: You're an academic. You don't know which end of a sword to point at an enemy, but luckily you don't even have a sword. You don't wear armor, and you can't move out of the way when the Beastman's Axe comes achoppin'. You're another kind of skill monkey, but even worse than the Thief in a scrap.

Beggar: You're... pretty much nothing. You have no particular skills (other than general survival) and you have no money and no gear. You're part of the team chiefly because another body count is often useful.


Here you see nothing of the roles discussed. Or rather; the Soldier is both Defender and Striker. Probably Controller too, although not one that needs protecting. Heck, a Soldier knows the Heal Skill, so it wouldn't be surprising to see him being the Healer too. He sure is the Leader and he sure is the Tank.

Despite this, WFRP combat can be fun and exciting. However, once you've played WoW or 4E, your eyes will have opened to the fact that this is despite the combat system and not because of it.


*) Yes, I'm well aware you can be an Elven Sniper, a Bright Wizard and a Sigmar Templar. But that changes nothing about my line of reasoning. I maintain my above party is at least as likely as the high-powered WFB one.

 

[jgerman]

It's an interesting take. I have noticed on MMORPGs that, contrary to the conventional wisdom, it's quite possible to load up on a single role or archetype and be successful. Back in the day, on Everquest, I used to gather as many paladins as I could for nightly raids on the orcs... it was quite astounding. When it comes to groups missing roles, or to soloing, I think Dave hits the nail on the head when he observes that the most important role is the healer, because they eliminate inconvenient downtime. In City of Heroes, healers have diminished in importance as healing inspirations became more important, and at high level solo play, you can simply avoid getting hurt, and rely on inspirations or the Heal Self power or slotted up Rest to get back in the game quickly.

That's common in most MMORPGs. See mana/tp/other burn parties in FFXI for an (extreme) example.

That same game is an example of taking on challenges suited to the party. A party with a missing, or ineffective, healer will need to tackle mobs of different numbers, types, and strengths.