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Best of Planescape (and Birthright, while we're at it)
Two relative oldies but goodies. I've been going on a bit of a collecting binge, trying to gather some of the jewels of RPG history (especially D&D) and am setting my eyes on Planescape and Birthright. I've only got the Planescape box set; I had the Birthright box set but sold it maybe a decade a go. What I am specifically looking for:
PLANESCAPE - what are the best Planescape products? In particular setting books, but also the one or two best modules. The key word here is "fluff"; I'm less interested in "crunch."
BIRTHRIGHT - Setting only. What are the best setting books? Is the box set the only real "must have" or are there other setting books worth grabbing?
There will probably be more posts like this to follow but I thought I'd do focused threads rather than one big "Help me fill out my collection" uber-thread.
#1: The Planes Of... boxed sets (Chaos, Law, and Conflict). Especially Planes of Chaos. They're all dynamite in their own way, but Planes of Chaos seemed to have the biggest art budget. Really, since there are three of these, they could count for all three ranks!
#2: Uncaged: Faces of Sigil. Stellar art and really useful for actually running a game, complete with interconnected webs of malicious intent!
#3: The Factol's Manifesto. AWESOME level of fluff, and the go-to book for faction material (which is part of Planescape's appeal IMO).
Honorable Mention to the Planewalker's Handbook, and to In The Cage: A Guide to Sigil. Less jaw-droppingly amazing, but great on a a practical level for running around Sigil and the planes as PS characters (as opposed to just some berk)
As far as adventures, I'd go with these three on top:
#1: The Great Modron March. Orcus and robots and horror and plane-hopping oh my!
#2: Tales from the Infinite Staircase. Loosely linked adventures you can drop off at any point, or string together. Phenomenally useful.
#3: Dead Gods. Captures the "belief is power" nature of Planescape pretty dang well.
Honorable mention to Faction War. Solid adventure if you want to shake up the setting's assumptions, but has a bit of a bad rap because it was seen as the Death of Planescape. It's really not a bad adventure, but it does change things a lot.
I'm sure Shem or Ken or Clueless or someone can give you some deeper insight and some especially unusual choices. I tend to go for the big, epic, sweeping, arty, beautiful, plane-hopping, weird, wild, and, of course, philosophical, but those are just what Planescape is to moi.
PLANESCAPE - what are the best Planescape products?
That's a trick question. All of the PS books are the best.
Seriously though, I get use out of every single one of the books. The 4 setting box sets will give you everything you need. Everything else is just sugar coating.
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also the one or two best modules.
I always mention this one because it never gets the attention it deserves; Fires of Dis. I personally think it is one of the best adventures you can run for Planescape. It has so much good roleplaying opportunities in it and some really interesting encounters.
Next, I would say Eternal Boundary. You can't start off a PS campaign without running this gem. It's the Sunless Citadel of PS. I haven't seen a player yet that didn't enjoy doing this adventure.
Everyone else will mention all of the big obvious ones (Dead Gods, Modron March, ect ect) but the above 2 are the ones people overlook way too often.
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The key word here is "fluff"; I'm less interested in "crunch."
Lucky for you then because PS is 90% fluff and 10% crunch no matter what book you pick up...that's why it's the best setting ever made
1) Faces of Evil: The Fiends - the best fiend book in D&D history, and one of the top two monster ecology books for the same. Awesome ideas. Only FC:I has come remotely close to touching this book's standard since it was written.
2) Uncaged: Faces of Sigil - best NPC book in D&D history. A decade after being printed and seven years after I first read it, literally every single NPC in the book remains memorable, and I've used a majority of them in my campaigns. I <3 Akin and Seamusxanthuszemus. Entirely illustrated by Tony Diterlizzi doesn't hurt either.
3) Factol's Manifesto - unique book that you wouldn't see WotC produce unless they were high on crack at this point. Filled with enough flavor and plot hooks to make your head spin, and written up as an in-game book. Oh yeah, and A'kin wrote it in-game.
4) Hellbound: The Blood War - like Faces of Evil but about the conflict itself rather than the various fiends in general. The Blood War chronology itself is awesome, and the module that's also part of the box set has some unique characters (the Maeldur, Daru Ib Shamiq, etc).
5) Planes of Conflict / Chaos / Law - Standard bearers for all books on the planes written after them. We haven't seen anything since then, except possibly FC:I to come close to hitting their level of well written, evocative flavor text.
__________________ "I can just see the 4e adventure anthology "Tale from the Limited Staircase"." - Ken Marable
BIRTHRIGHT - Setting only. What are the best setting books? Is the box set the only real "must have" or are there other setting books worth grabbing?
I'd say it depends on your definition of "must have". Long post follows, you've been warned.
The 2nd box, Cities of the Sun, includes the naval rules and describes the Arab-esque Khinasi region. Recommended if you like Al Qadim's flavor or want to run adventures/campaigns on the seas; it's also the region with the highest number of wizards in this low-magic setting. The naval rules were later reprinted in the Naval Battle Rules: The Seas of Cerilia box.
The 3rd box, The Rjurik Highlands, has little in the way of new rules. The region is Viking-esque and one of the grittiest with barely any human wizards and lots of monsters. I can recommend the King of the Giantdowns adventure for Rjurik and Anuirean campaigns as it is great on crunch (herbs and plants, establishing your own domain in the wilderness) and fluff (ancient history and nasty surprises in this region).
The 4th box, Havens of the Great Bay, adds interesting and useful rules: the Guilder sub-class, new domain actions, advanced nautical equipment, and a unique fighting style. A good swashbuckling setting with a strong Dutch/German, Hanseatic League feel to it.
If you're a native German speaker, a lot of the names will be pretty silly though.
The last regional expansion -which wasn't a box anymore with TSR being broke- was Tribes of the Heartless Waste, very gritty and Russian/Mongol-esque. It adds weather rules, new equipment and new monsters. Lots of great background info on the most savage part of Cerilia.
Other books that are very useful IMO: Player's Secrets of Baruk-Azhik. Essential background on Cerilian dwarves. A must-have for dwarven PC's.
Player's Secrets of Tuarhievel. As above, but for Cerilian elves.
The Book of Priestcraft. All the faiths of Cerilia, plus new spells. A must-have in my book.
The Book of Magecraft. Deals with realm magic and sources, new spells and magic items. Less useful than the Book of Priestcraft IMO, but a must-have for wizard regents.
Blood Enemies. The BBEG's of Cerilia. A must-have for the DM.
Blood Spawn. THE sourcebook on the Shadow World, really ancient history predating the knowledge of the elves, the scoop on the Cold Rider, lots of nasty new monsters. Free download here.
Weapons of the Waves from Dragon Magazine #232. Naval history and tactics, expanded naval rules, new weapons and ships.
Btw, I've DM'ed Birthright. Can you tell?
__________________ Pour le Rouse! Member of the Rouseketeers.
Best PS book for me was On Hallowed Ground, the book detailing the gods in the planes. Vital to any edition d&d campaign if you plan on spending time focusing on the various deities.
Guide to the Astral Plane, Ethereal Plane, and Inner Planes (who can forget Xanxost?) were also cream of the crop. Who can Xansost forget?
Planescape's books were so chock full of good stuff, often hidden deep in the text, which of course makes them a fantastic read several times over. Only duds they put out were in the adventures line (Something Wild, Deva Spark, Harbinger House, and Faction War, I'm looking at you!)
I'm sure Shem or Ken or Clueless or someone can give you some deeper insight and some especially unusual choices. I tend to go for the big, epic, sweeping, arty, beautiful, plane-hopping, weird, wild, and, of course, philosophical, but those are just what Planescape is to moi.
Sorry to let you down, but you pretty much quoted my exact opinion. (Finally getting ready to start my 4e Infinite Staircase > Modron March > Faction War > Dead Gods campaign!)
In you are looking for great gaming material
With Planescape, a few of the short modules are mediocre and Faction War makes some massive changes which can be off putting if you don't want those changes - but otherwise you really can't go wrong with all of the rest. If you want to focus on any particular region, the Planes Of and Guide To series are perfect for that (or get them all and wander all around). I'd say definitely get those and Factol's Manifesto if you are looking for lots of good fluff. Uncaged: Faces of Sigil is also great for the fluffiness of many interesting NPCs with intertwining backgrounds (they even include charts of how everyone interacts!).
Also, I don't think I saw it mentioned above, but Planewalker's Handbook might be either good or useless. It's much more crunch heavy and repeats info from other sources, so you might not need it at all, BUT it is also the best single source for player info. So if you want something that you can hand to a player and know that it explains all of the basics of the setting without revealing any of the secrets, then this is the book you want. But again, aside from crunch (like the first appearance of genasi if I recall, and modrons as PCs) there's absolutely nothing new in this book. But it covers pretty much EVERYTHING without revealing setting secrets.
Or if you are looking at these as a collector
If you aren't looking for gaming material, but interesting "historical" material, get the Planes Of boxed sets, Hellbound, Factol's Manifesto, and Dead Gods. Those are really the pillars of what Planescape was from a collector's viewpoint. Runner ups would be the other mega adventures (Infinite Staircase, Modron March, and Faction War), Eternal Boundary (because as Oryan77 says, it's the Sunless Citadel/Keep on the Borderlands of Planescape), and Player's Primer to Outlands (if no other reason than the novelty of an audio CD of an in-character mimir).
That's a trick question. All of the PS books are the best.
Seriously though, I get use out of every single one of the books. The 4 setting box sets will give you everything you need. Everything else is just sugar coating.
That. Planescape is one of those settings that was REALLY good so anything you get is pretty sweet.
I personally love Inner planes myself, as it has a wealth of ideas in it.
Thanks for all of that. More questions might follow, but for now I had two: What about the Deva Spark? No one has mentioned that and the premise looked interested. Also, what Planescape books have the most about Sigil and the land around it? In other words, that which is unique to Planescape and not just part of the Great Wheel?
For Planescape I consider Factol's Manifesto and In The Cage to be absolutely awesome, and extremely helpful for getting the feel of the setting right. In The Cage, in particular, showcases a variety of stores, writs, and people that just make Sigil come to life.
Thanks for all of that. More questions might follow, but for now I had two: What about the Deva Spark? No one has mentioned that and the premise looked interested. Also, what Planescape books have the most about Sigil and the land around it? In other words, that which is unique to Planescape and not just part of the Great Wheel?
I haven't really delved too deep into Deva Spark, so I can't say how good it is. It is an interesting and very Planescape-y idea...
Spoiler:
If I recall, a portion of a deva is smuggled into the Lower Planes (spy?? I forget) but gets into a bebillith. The bebillith turns good and the PCs are faced with the dilemma of returning the spark to the celestial who needs it but dooming the now reformed bebilith, or letting the fiend live at the cost of the celestial
... but many have said it's very railroady. *shrug* I don't know for myself, so I'm interested in hearing others actual play experiences with it.
As for Sigil info, In the Cage and Uncaged: Faces of Sigil are great sources of info on the city. If I recall, Faction War also had a great deal of info (rumored to be from another project that was dropped, so they inserted it into this adventure).
Although Sigil was favored in a lot of the products, I'm not sure offhand how many adventures are based in it, however. Beyond adventure hooks that read "While in Sigil your factol sends you on a mission, here's the portal key, see you later" most adventures were actually throughout the planes. Eternal Boundary and Harbinger house, I think are mostly in Sigil. Doors to the Unknown branches off into other planes, but through dealing with Estavan and such, still feels pretty Sigil grounded. Of course, Faction War is 100% in Sigil.
Concerning "surrounding area not just part of the Great Wheel", if you mean the Outlands and gatetowns, the Player's Primer to the Outlands has a bunch on that. It's short but has at least a page and I think map for each gatetown. Most every gatetown appears to a varying extent in some adventure, but not a whole lot of fluff in those. as for other stuff unique to Planescape not just part of the Great Wheel, I'm not really sure since the two are so closely integrated in my mind.
Thanks for all of that. More questions might follow, but for now I had two: What about the Deva Spark? No one has mentioned that and the premise looked interested. Also, what Planescape books have the most about Sigil and the land around it? In other words, that which is unique to Planescape and not just part of the Great Wheel?
I came really close to running the Deva Spark for my group. I read it, I liked it, and then as I began to prepare it I realized that it is wayyyyy campy. I wanted to run it cause it sends the PCs to Elysium and I thought that would be a fun trip. But that Elysium chapter is just really immature. It felt like something a group of 11 y/o girls would enjoy, but not something a group of 20 something men would take seriously. I like to run some light-hearted scenarios from time to time, but I thought that stuff was over the top. I can't remember any specifics, but I do seem to remember that the ending of the adventure was kinda bad too.
I set it aside and decided that it is definitely a good book to mine ideas from (so I have). There's still some cool scenarios in it, including a couple good scenarios in the Elysium chapter.
I read Something Wild but it just really seemed empty for a 30 page book. I felt like I'd still be creating my own adventure to make it have more substance, so why bother running it.
Harbinger House always gets good praise. I've never used it and I actually haven't read the full thing yet.
I have never fully read Doors to the Unknown and In the Abyss yet, only cause I've been running Dead Gods and that was a beast to prepare/convert to 3.5. I don't know if those are any good or not.
I've heard mixed things about Well of Worlds. I didn't really care for it myself, but I've heard other people say they had fun with it.
3) Factol's Manifesto ...Oh yeah, and A'kin wrote it in-game.
Wait, what? Where was that revealed? (Makes some sense though).
I was going to comment on the different books, but really everyone's pretty much covered it. You've got the various planar guide for the planes, In the Cage and Uncaged: Faces of Sigil give the chant on Sigil, The Factol's Manifesto describes the various factions and sets up some setting metaplot, On Hallowed Ground describes the various gods, and Hellbound gets into the Blood War and how it affects the Outer Planes. Planewalker's Handbook is less crunch and more of a general guide for players that consolidates rules for character creation and general fluff that a PC would know.
__________________ "Y'know, I think my favorite thing about being a hero of destiny is that it gives you all kinds of narrative justification to just slay any ol' jerk who gets in your way." -- 8-bit Theater
"i did not serve with napolean in his artillery. but i did play wargames with him and his men." -- diaglo
Wait, what? Where was that revealed? (Makes some sense though).
Faction War has that little bit as part of the faction politics going on, because that author dips their hands into the mix in one of the later portions of the adventure.
__________________ "I can just see the 4e adventure anthology "Tale from the Limited Staircase"." - Ken Marable
Faction War has that little bit as part of the faction politics going on, because that author dips their hands into the mix in one of the later portions of the adventure.
I should have guessed. Faction War and Faces of Evil are the two big gaping holes in my PS collection.
__________________ "Y'know, I think my favorite thing about being a hero of destiny is that it gives you all kinds of narrative justification to just slay any ol' jerk who gets in your way." -- 8-bit Theater
"i did not serve with napolean in his artillery. but i did play wargames with him and his men." -- diaglo
Another BR fan here. I have to say the best and worst parts about the product support of BR was how much TSR put out and how specific each product was. Almost every PC ready domain had a mini-supplement written for it. Each setting supplement was well done but some were just more interesting than others.
I'd take a look at the free stuff here and here (scroll down to the Birthright stuff). It would be pretty easy to mine a random Birthright domain for a home game. The only issue is removing/changing the threats each domain faced.
__________________ Respect the narrative! Tame the plot!
Really, since there are three of these, they could count for all three ranks!
Pour le Rouse! 
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