Orcus of Necromancer Games says "You were right, I was wrong"

[Orcus]

Hi everyone.

It's been awhile.

Normally I wouldn't talk about new releases here in the main forum. But I'm going to. Why? Because many of you were right and I was wrong. Yep. I said it. I was wrong.

What are you talking about you crazy demon lord, you might say.

Back when 3.5 "officially" ended and 4E started many of you may remember me being 4E's big cheerleader. Well, I still feel the same way about -wanting- to support 4E. But I dont want to get off track. At that time we (meaning me, my partner Bill disagreed but deferred to my wishes on this issue at the time) decided to hold three products we had in the can, essentially. The plan was to retool them and release them for 4E. That plan was thwarted by many things--WotC and the GSL 1.0 and all sorts of factors discussed ad infinitum before. During that process, my position was "dont worry it will all work out and we will have these great 4E modules!" Turns out I was wrong. It didnt all work out.

So here I am. Ready to eat crow. Go ahead. Give it to me

Of course, the end result is that some of you get a win/win--you get to tell me you were right and I was wrong AND you get access to those three awesome adventures. When you read them you will see why I was so stoked to do them for 4E (not to play favorites, but in particular Slumbering Tsar).

Here's the link: [Necromancer] The Vault Opens! Lost Modules Released!

So all of you who said you would be starving for 3E adventure goodness (or evil badness as the case may be) come on in! The tomb is open! The vault doors thrown aside! And I have to stand here and admit I should have released them over a year ago.

Better late than never I guess.

Clark

[pawsplay]

I'm sorry to hear things did not work out as planned. I can't think of anyone who did more to try to make the edition change a positive thing for fans of thirty party products. It's good to see you posting.

[MichaelSomething]

So what does Necromancer Games plan to do? Try to get in on 4th Edition? Stay with 3.5 until it dies? Jump on a retro-clone? Hibernate (for forever perhaps)?

[Kzach]

So there's no way to release adventures under the 4e GSL?

[Orcus]

Originally Posted by Kzach

So there's no way to release adventures under the 4e GSL?

I wont say "no way." It was just proving to be a difficult thing to do for lots of reasons. And the adventures we had done were all awesome (in particular Greg's Slumbering Tsar is amazing) and the fans had just waited long enough. Bill convinced me it was time to just let them be released as 3.5 pdfs.

Clark

[Rechan]

I'm sad these couldn't be 4e. But, it's mighty big of you Orcus.

[CapnZapp]

You're a quality act, Clark.

Still hoping WotC will see that too...

[delericho]

Oh no! More support for my edition of choice! Whatever shall I do?

Seriously, though, it's unfortunate that you couldn't make it work. Perhaps you'll find a way in the future.

If it's any consolation, encounter design in 4e appears to be sufficiently different from 3.5e that I would suspect an adventure designed for 4e from the outset would probably work better than an adventure initially designed for 3.5e and then ported over. So the end result is that those three adventures might make for a more satisfying experience in their 'native' edition.

[CapnZapp]

Converting a module certainly is more work than just posting a bunch of stat blocks.

Generally you would want to bunch together three 3E encounters or so into a single 4E encounter.

And tweak the map to match. And by "tweak", I don't just mean "enlarge", but also "spruce" - the expectations on the presence of exciting terrain from a quality 4E 'venture are simply higher.

So yes, making a d20 -> 4E conversion without involving the cartographer is probably not a good idea.

[Snoweel]

I told you so.

[Nikosandros]

Will this adventures be available as POD at some point in the future?

[DaveMage]

Per Bill on the Necro boards, they are working on a POD option, but no timetable yet.

DriveThru recently announced that they are moving to a POD option on many titles, but IIRC, that's going to take a few months to get that up and running.

[Belphanior]

Uhm... I understand why the Publishers & Press Releases post was made, but doesn't this "I admit I was wrong" story look like a method to slip an add in under the radar? Essentially he's telling us he's got three new products we can buy from him, and maybe I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that this particular sub-forum isn't the place for that?

[Remus Lupin]

Seriously though, am I reading this right or are these each running around $20 for a PDF? Will the market bear that kind of price? because I can't see myself paying that.

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Originally Posted by Orcus

I wont say "no way." It was just proving to be a difficult thing to do for lots of reasons. And the adventures we had done were all awesome (in particular Greg's Slumbering Tsar is amazing) and the fans had just waited long enough. Bill convinced me it was time to just let them be released as 3.5 pdfs.

Clark

I would be interested in knowing what makes the release of 4E adventures difficult in your opinion. Other 3rd party publishers are releasing 4E adventures, so what makes the prospect difficult for Necromancer Games?

[kenmarable]

Originally Posted by Remus Lupin

Seriously though, am I reading this right or are these each running around $20 for a PDF? Will the market bear that kind of price? because I can't see myself paying that.

Wait, what happened to the "Pathfinder Effect" causes PDF prices to drop to zero from one of those industry insider rants a while back?

Yeah, they are pricey, but personally, I've always felt PDFs were undervalued, and as a market leader in adventures Necromancer Games can charge a premium. Plus these are 98 pages, 146 pages, and 226 pages in length. So the 98 page one might be iffy, but when you are looking at 146 to 226 page mini campaigns, that's still a great price regardless of the format - at least in my opinion.


Oh, and Clark, what's the level range on Slumbering Tsar? And are the next 2 parts of the trilogy on their way as well?

And awesome cover images, by the way! Whatever people want to say about AD&D 2e, I really loved the Elmore/Parkinson/Caldwell era of artwork and these images fit into that perfectly!

[diaglo]

Originally Posted by Orcus

Better late than never I guess.

Clark

any chance you could release these as OD&D(1974) compatiable products?

[Wulf Ratbane]

I'm thinking about buying one of these 3.5 adventures just to stick it to Orcus.

That'll show 'im.

[SSquirrel]

Originally Posted by Belphanior

Uhm... I understand why the Publishers & Press Releases post was made, but doesn't this "I admit I was wrong" story look like a method to slip an add in under the radar? Essentially he's telling us he's got three new products we can buy from him, and maybe I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that this particular sub-forum isn't the place for that?

The ad is not the ultimate goal of the post, explaining his logic on why the products were delayed and why to go ahead and release them now was. If he had just said the rest and not provided a link, one of the first responses would have been "Where can I find these new products?", and someone would have linked it.

Besides, Clark seems to have earned a certain amount of latitude here on ENWorld over the years. If you kept track of the saga that was involved in the 4E GSL at all, you will know how heavily involved he was and he was championing the edition and trying to help moderate a lot of flak that was being thrown around. I don't have a lot of call for 3.5 personally, but I'm gald to see some more Necromancer stuff released, especially if it's high quality.

[Angellis_ater]

Clark - from one publisher to another - we're sorry things didn't work out.

But please, do tell us - what were the difficulties with the GSL/4E that made it less possible to release these particular adventures for 4th Edition?

EDIT: Also, is there a particular reason these weren't released for Pathfinder?