Ressurection and Drama "Don't worry, we'll rez you after this"

[fuzzlewump]

A few years back I was playing "Temple of Elemental Evil," the psuedo baldur's gate type of RPG for the computer. I haven't played the 'real' module, so my experience is solely based on this game. I wasn't impressed with the game at all, but I remember back then realizing how ridiculous the D&D game world can be. At the beginning of the game your party comes across a dead body with a message, or a dying man, something along those lines, that sends you to the town which will in turn lead to the Temple.

Again, this was a few years ago, and I haven't played the module, so I'm sorry for being so vague. But anyway, upon reaching this town my party was talking to a religious figure, and I mentioned the dead body I found with the message. I'm expecting this very, I don't know, solemn, dramatic mood. Instead, the religious figure responds with, "Oh, well, did you resurrect him?"

I couldn't help but laugh, and realize that I hadn't thought about that. I realized then how much the existence of ressurection, in my opinion, cheapens or outright destroys the portrayal of the human condition in a meaningful way. On that note, having a clear knowledge of the afterlife also has the same effect, but that's another topic. Now that I run a paragon level campaign in 4E, why should anyone feel any drama for dying? The dramatic suicides Romeo and Juliet would just take some chump change from one my characters, a short explanation, and it's not really a big deal anymore. The dramatic sacrifice of the fighter, as he holds his ground and allows his friends to escape, is not such a big deal since the cleric smartly keeps vials of that party's DNA on hand. (This doesn't actually happen in my game, but I imagine in the game world it's exactly what should happen given the world.)

In order to 'combat' the problem, I'll have certain plot-related fights also have souls at stake. Like, falling to the Lich will cause your soul to be lost forever, or at least until you destroy his phylactery. The poison not only eats away your body, but also at your soooul.

So, tell me fellow ENWorlders, do you think resurrection is an enemy to human drama, verisimilitude, or some such aspect of your game you view as important? Why or why not? If yes, have you taken any steps to fix the problem?

 

[Herobizkit]

You're absolutely right, which is why I eliminated Raise Dead and Resurrection from my campaign world. I did, however, allow Reincarnation - it better fits my campaign world's cosmology and really makes players wonder if they want to continue playing D&D as an awakened animal (I added the old 2e Druid and Wizard reincarnation lists to the standard humanoid possibilities).

 

[pawsplay]

I thought in 4e you had to be "special" to be raised.

 

[MarkB]

One way to counter this is to make resurrection something which rarely works for most people. It's a very fine balance - if a person's soul is reasonably at-rest, they won't find worldly matters concerning enough to be drawn back from their afterlife to the mortal world, and if they're seriously troubled by some traumatic sense of loss for duties failed or left undone, they'll become a ghost or similar spiritual being, haunting whatever location they're most strongly drawn to and unable to move either on to the afterlife or back to resurrection until their situation is resolved.

It's only a small minority, committed to some form of strong mutual bond of friendship with a small group of still-living companions, who are likely to feel the compulsion to return to life and remain eligible for resurrection rituals.

 

[The Ghost]

Maybe. I think the trick with Resurrection/Raise Dead/etc. is in how it is used in game. If it is common and easily accessible then I agree that it cheapens the experience. However, if used rarely and only for good cause it can add to the dramatic moments of the game. As a DM and player I like having that tool available to me in my toolbox - I just try to use it sparingly.

 

[Chainsaw]

Two experiences that may apply:

1. Back when I DM'ed 2E for my friends back in middle/high school (1988-1996ish), the characters died all the time - but weren't often resurrected. Usually the campaigns never made it past 6-7th level and they never had the dough to pay for their friend's resurrection. Usually they'd look at the other player and say, "Roll a new guy." Usually the new guy got up to speed pretty quickly, tagging along in battles where the higher level. It all worked out. So anyway, there was SOME drama with death experiences because you knew the guy probably wasn't coming back, but partially offsetting that was how my players were less emotionally invested in the characters. They weren't really "living" through them - the character was just a vessel for the player to test his skill. One guy dies, another one is rolled up.

2. In the 4E LFR pick-up game I played in earlier in 2009 and the 4E campaign I play in now, I have not witnessed (or even heard about) a single death. The DM and the players are very emotionally invested in the character backstories from day one. Honestly, I'm not sure anyone really thinks the characters will ever die unless the player does something fantastically stupid ("I attack the king"). If someone were to die, I'm sure he'd be resurrected somehow, quickly, without missing a beat. So not much death/resurrection drama here either.

So, in both cases, there's really not alot of drama surrounding death, but in both cases it was really due to player/group mindset more than the rules or availability of resurrection.

Just anecdotal of course. Trying to generalize or compare RPG experiences can be really, really hard given the ease of customization.

Edit: Well, I guess the high expense of resurrection DID contribute to why it didn't happen much in my 2E games, now that I read back over what I wrote - but that was basically part of the mindset that we all agreed to in the campaign: they knew it was a low magic world.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

I thought in 4e you had to be "special" to be raised.

Pretty much. Here's the relevant bit from the Raise Dead ritual:

The subject’s soul must be free and willing to return to life. Some magical effects trap the soul and thus prevent Raise Dead from working, and the gods can intervene to prevent a soul from journeying back to the realm of the living.

So if the Raven Queen (that is, the DM) says no, it ain't happening. This came up in our game, once. A gnoll chieftan was assassinated, and one of the PCs said "Let's just raise him." It didn't work, because I said "As you begin the ritual, you realize that the gnoll's spirit has gone to the fate decreed to him by the Raven Queen."

Having said that, I always treat the PCs as having the special dispensation of fate/TRQ/the gods, etc.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

I'm not a fan of resurrection as reset button. This is a core difference between a traditional computer game where you have multiple "lives" and can save or reset the action and an RPG. In that computer game medium fine, but in the more "realistic" world of RPGs, I expect logic of some things to follow that of the real world. In essence, I think resurrection should be special and far more costly in terms of resources or have a much darker edge such as a soul sent back from hell.

A fantasy world where anyone can be brought back at minimal cost would be bizarre and as the OP points out, would take away much of the drama and pathos of dying.

Anyway, I know lots of people don't like my view on resurrection including the designers of 4e. So be it I suppose, different strokes and all that.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Chainsaw]

I agree with you Herremann!

Sometimes in my current game I feel like I'm just an observer.. it's not so much "railroaded" as it is that the world doesn't really feel very dangerous.

 

[kenmarable]

Like others, resurrection is rare in the world, however PCs are rare as well. So I agree that the example the OP mentions is really bad. And NPCs would be rarely resurrected. PCs on the other hand, I have no problem with. A) We have very few PC deaths. I don't like anyone having to sit out part of the game for any reason. It ain't fun. B) When we do have an unplanned PC death (as opposed to an occasional "I want a new PC, can my current one die in a blaze of glory?"), I like to write up their experiences while dead. Often surreal and playing on the subconscious issues a PC would have, it can have quite an impact. One time, a pretty standard thief died, and after the PC's death vision, she had a religious conversion and wound up become quite devout. It was great!

So when we have an unplanned PC death, yeah we know they are coming back real soon. But we also strive to make that death actually matter.