Magic items and artifacts.

[AllisterH]

Here's a query...Magical Items in 4e are considered boring and one of the things nobody really cares for.

On the other hand, there's 4e's artifact system and I've seen mucho love for it (in my opinion, best artifact rules EVER for D&D. Hell, there's no reason why you can't use the artifact rules as is for 1e games IMO.)

What can we rip off from the artifact system to improve magical items but NOT make artifacts just super-powered magical items.

Let's work with an example. Appropriately today, how would you use WAVE as a basis for a normal magical item?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Let's work with an example. Appropriately today, how would you use WAVE as a basis for a normal magical item?

well by building it with a back story it is already a step in the right direction...




Wave level 14+
This trident is ornately decorated with aquatic images. When grasped, it emanates a divine fervor, urging its bearer to follow its lead.
Enhancement: +3 Attack rolls and damage rolls
Critical: +3d6 damage, or +3d10 damage against aquatic or elemental
Property: You gain a swim speed equal to your land speed.
Power (Daily): Standard Action. Until the end of the encounter, each ally within 10 squares of you can breathe water as if under the effect of the Water Breathing ritual.


seams like that magic item even with most of the god removed) has a very nice flavor and power...and is mostly balanced.

 

[Mentat55]

Ooh, I like the idea of magic items that let you use a ritual on the spot, without the time and cost investment, as a daily power. I think this is a great way to go. Imagine a silver raven that lets you use the Animal Messenger ritual as a daily as if your Nature check was 40. Not powerful, but something as a player that I would say "Cool, I'll take that!"

I think things that make magic items more "magical" (and I think this was just as important in 3.x, especially with the codified mix-and-match ability system of armor and weapons) are (1) back story, as GMforPowergamers said, but the story should probably be brief and readily accessible to the PCs, (2) physical description, and (3) a slight twist on existing, "by the book" magic item powers. So even if it seems a lot like a frost weapon, perhaps the power works a bit differently, just enough for the player (whose read the whole PHB and both AVs) finds it a tad out of the ordinary.

I am starting to think that giving more potent abilities is probably ok, too. Boots of spider climbing should give you something like speed climb 3 (spider climb), not just a climb check bonus (then I would probably bump up the level a bit). Is giving out flight too powerful? What if it is overland flight, clumsy, or altitude limited? You shouldn't give out tons of these items, but a few here and there, at the right levels, would not be game-breaking.

You could also use the concordance system, or something like it, on a daily basis for a normal magic item, and essentially let it power up. Like a dragonslaying sword that gets more powerful when it crits a dragon, or bloodies it, or if the wielder avoids being hit by frightful presence, etc. And then certain powers become available as the score gets higher -- and then it resets after an extended rest.

 

[Kzach]

Magical Items in 4e are considered boring and one of the things nobody really cares for.

Who are these nobodies and why are they speaking for all of us?

I quite like the magical item system. I see nothing wrong with it, mechanically or descriptively. It's up to the players and the DM to bring such things to life, not the system.

 

[FireLance]

I think the most fundamental question to ask is what people like about the 4E artifact system. After all, different people may like different aspects of it.

For me, it's the idea of concordance, or the ability to "unlock" item powers by fulfilling specific (preferably role-playing) requirements. IMO, this makes the magic item less of a tool, and more like an NPC which the player has an ongoing relationship with.

I had earlier thought about expanding that idea into the concept of symbiotic items which grow with the user and which gain increasingly powerful abilities as the user performs specific, (usually) increasingly difficult deeds. Here is one example (the only example, actually, and with some details not yet fleshed out) from my blog, the longsword Solar Radiance:

When first found, Solar Radiance appears to be a +1 sunblade longsword (Adventurer's Vault). It gains the following abilities when its wielder meets the stated prerequisites:

Prerequisites: 5th level; you have performed a just or generous act in the presence of the sword.
Benefit: You can use the sword as a holy symbol.

Prerequistes: 7th level; you have used the sword to defeat an evil or chaotic evil creature of at least 6th level.
Benefit: The sword's enhancement bonus increases to +2.

Prerequistes: 9th level; you have used the sword to defeat a shadow or undead creature of at least 8th level.
Benefit: When the sword is used to deal radiant damage, add a +2 item bonus to damage rolls.

Prerequistes: 11th level; (to be determined)
Benefit: The sword gains the following daily power:
Power (Daily): Free Action. Use this power when you hit with the weapon. The target is dazed until the end of your next turn. If the target is evil or chaotic evil, the target is dazed (save ends) instead.

Prerequistes: 13th level; you have used the sword to defeat an evil or chaotic evil creature of at least 12th level.
Benefit: The sword's enhancement bonus increases to +3.

Prerequistes: 15th level; (to be determined)
Benefit: When you use the sword to attack a target currently marked by you, you gain a +1 bonus to the attack roll.

Prerequistes: 17th level; you have used the sword to defeat an evil or chaotic evil creature of at least 16th level.
Benefit: The sword's enhancement bonus increases to +4.

Prerequistes: 19th level; you have used the sword to defeat a shadow or undead creature of at least 18th level.
Benefit: When the sword is used to deal radiant damage, add a +4 item bonus to damage rolls.

Prerequistes: 21th level; (to be determined)
Benefit: The sword gains the following daily power:
Power (Daily): Free Action. Use this power when you hit with the weapon. The target is blinded until the end of your next turn.

Prerequistes: 23th level; you have used the sword to defeat an evil or chaotic evil creature of at least 22nd level.
Benefit: The sword's enhancement bonus increases to +5.

Prerequistes: 25th level; (to be determined)
Benefit: The sword gains the following encounter power:
Power (Encounter * Radiant): Free Action. Use this power when making an attack that targets AC. The attack targets Reflex defense instead. All damage from the attack is radiant damage.

Prerequistes: 27th level; you have used the sword to defeat an evil or chaotic evil creature of at least 26th level.
Benefit: The sword's enhancement bonus increases to +6.

Prerequistes: 29th level; you have used the sword to defeat a shadow or undead creature of at least 28th level.
Benefit: When the sword is used to deal radiant damage, add a +6 item bonus to damage rolls.​

 

[Dice4Hire]

Who are these nobodies and why are they speaking for all of us?

I quite like the magical item system. I see nothing wrong with it, mechanically or descriptively. It's up to the players and the DM to bring such things to life, not the system.

I certainly agree. The items work fine and add something to the character without overshadowing the character's abilities.

The whole creation thing bugs me, but that can easily be changed.

 

[CapnZapp]

Well, while the idea might sound good on the surface, I believe using the artifact system for all items is simply way too much work.

Instead, why don't you try combining the abilities of two mediocre items into one? I have littered my own campaign with lots of items that have powers and properties from more than one official item, and that works great!

(If I had to come up with a stat-block worthy of an artefact each time I had to generate a bit of loot I probably would have gotten nowhere. Instead, I'm using the fact most items are too pedestrian to ever see use to my advantage - combining two such items is very unlikely to be so overpowered as to pose a real problem)

 

[FireLance]

Well, while the idea might sound good on the surface, I believe using the artifact system for all items is simply way too much work.

I think more complex and powerful items would naturally go hand-in-hand with fewer items, and thus, each item feeling more "special" - which may be yet another advantage to certain gamers.

 

[CapnZapp]

Sure you can effectively throw in more artefacts in your game. I was more responding to the (in)feasibility of doing all magic items that way.

(While at the same offering up an alternative I can vouch is working in practice )

 

[Nebulous]

I just added Reckless (the magic artifact boots from DMG2) to Pyramid of Shadows, and there's the Head of Vyrsallis, another artifact, and the PCs are trying to find the Hand & Eye of Vecna, two more artifacts in the pyramid. so yeah, i wholly endorse sprinkling artifacts around to make magic more interesting than the crap that exists currently. As for the idea of an artifact granting rituals, that's a great idea too. I already gave the party a magic staff that casts 6 different death-related rituals much faster than normal, but it's not an artifact.

I think i'm going to go in the direction of fewer, more powerful magic items in my D&D game and reinforce covenant items that level up with the characters, so they won't feel like they have to find or buy upgrades.