Goodman Games solicits input

[samursus]

I would tenatively put my support in for either a 4e native or system neutral with downloadable stats series. Like others have said, not sure how it would work out, but would be willing to to give it a try. I am not a huge fan of the WotC modules so far in this edition, and am encouraging of others to try and provide better adventures.

[Shemeska]

Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Chrono22]

It seems to me, that they've already made up their minds about this. Soliciting to a fragmented community for guidance? That's no way to run a business.
I think it's more likely, they are saying these things to appear as though they are listening to the voices of the community as a way of heading off the ****storm that will follow them either dropping 4e support or drastically changing their format/pricing model.
*polishes tinfoil hat*

[ggroy]

Originally Posted by Chrono22

It seems to me, that they've already made up their minds about this. Soliciting to a fragmented community for guidance? That's no way to run a business.

Allegedly Joseph Goodman has a real full time day job outside of the rpg world. Goodman Games may very well be his own hobby side business, which in principle he can probably drop on a dime without drastically affecting his own financial well being.

[JoeGKushner]

The old school movement seems more open and inviting to other publishers but I don't know if it has the purchasing power to make such a venture worthwhile. Most of those on the small publishing side that I tend to read seem to indicate a rather smallish scale of things but I have no insider information on this. What was it.... Stonehell dungeon where the author was mentioning something like 500 units solid and I think that included PDF?

Pathfinder... I wouldn't qualify that as 'old school' as much as the d20 branch.

If 4e isn't cutting it and they suspect that Pathfinder would... then Pathfinder is the way to go. In addition, there would be less hassel in the transformation of product from 3.5 to old school 1st ed. Might make it a more viable method, espeically for convention materials.

[aboyd]

Originally Posted by ggroy

Historically, has there ever been any successful module product lines which were stated for multiple rpg rulesets or had generic stats (ie. "Orc, 6 hp, axe, chainmail")?

Yes, in fact in the thread on goodmangames.com, I just posted that I loved the system-neutral Freeport series of modules, and that I would be happy to have more. Freeport was pretty popular, right?

I think I might in fact prefer modules that are system neutral, just so that I can easily swap conversion documents when I change systems. I'm 3.5 now, but what if I change to Pathfinder? Or C&C? Or T&T? I won't change to 4th, but I'd certainly consider 5th in a few years when it comes out. It'd be great to have an old familiar module that I can use to learn the ropes of the new system.

The only trick is that these conversion documents need good layout. It should be clear what areas tie together. I should be able to flip open the module to a particular area, and then flip open the conversion document, and lay each page side by side so that I can run the encounter easily (as easily as possible with 2 separate booklets).

[JoeGKushner]

Actually, I would say, no.

Freeport's success hasn't turned into Green Ronin supporting it or other game neutral books. If not for Expeditious Retreat Press, there would be no 4e book for it.

I'm not saying the books did poorly or anything of that nature, but the fact that they are not doing that with say, Book of the Righteous or their various monstrous books, especially the demons/devils/daemons one, seems to speak more volumes than having the PDFs of the various Freeport settings.

Originally Posted by aboyd

Yes, in fact in the thread on goodmangames.com, I just posted that I loved the system-neutral Freeport series of modules, and that I would be happy to have more. Freeport was pretty popular, right?

I think I might in fact prefer modules that are system neutral, just so that I can easily swap conversion documents when I change systems. I'm 3.5 now, but what if I change to Pathfinder? Or C&C? Or T&T? I won't change to 4th, but I'd certainly consider 5th in a few years when it comes out. It'd be great to have an old familiar module that I can use to learn the ropes of the new system.

The only trick is that these conversion documents need good layout. It should be clear what areas tie together. I should be able to flip open the module to a particular area, and then flip open the conversion document, and lay each page side by side so that I can run the encounter easily (as easily as possible with 2 separate booklets).

[ggroy]

Originally Posted by aboyd

Yes, in fact in the thread on goodmangames.com, I just posted that I loved the system-neutral Freeport series of modules, and that I would be happy to have more. Freeport was pretty popular, right?

I haven't looked that closely at the system neutral Freeport stuff. The only Freeport stuff I've used in the past, was the older books with 3E/3.5E rules.

[Treebore]

Originally Posted by Alzrius

Hm, given the relatively recent post Joe made in which he strongly proclaimed that 4E was doing great, I'm rather surprised (albeit pleasantly) to hear that he's considering branching out in terms of adventures for other systems.

Its called being smart. This model has failed before, but no one has ever used the internet in the manner he suggests, and I think this will be a big win for him if he does so.

Personally I would prefer the simple stat and download your favorite version model myself, but I think he would do best to keep it primarily for 4E and support the rest with free DL's.

Which doesn't really matter to those of us who play C&C, 4E is just as easy to convert as anything else is. Which is easy, period. Then for those of us who find such conversions to be too much of a problem, if Joe does it for Basic, 1E, or 2E, it becomes dirt simple for anyone who uses C&C.

So I hope he does this, since its a big win for my favorite system. Plus I have been running Hackmaster Basic lately as well, and if Joe sticks to primarily monsters already in the HMb book and the upcoming Bestiary conversion for that will be simple as well.

So I definitely hope Joe goes ahead and does this.

[ggroy]

Originally Posted by Chrono22

I think it's more likely, they are saying these things to appear as though they are listening to the voices of the community as a way of heading off the ****storm that will follow them either dropping 4e support or drastically changing their format/pricing model.
*polishes tinfoil hat*

If Goodman's main customers are the hardcore players + DM types, getting comments and feedback is probably the easiest on forums like this. At the present time, I would be quite surprised if many casual players are regularly buying any of Goodman's titles. (In my present gaming group, none of the players know anything about Goodman Games).

Nevertheless, at minimum Joseph Goodman posting his thoughts will probably give a good idea what type of fallout will happen with the proposed possible changes, in the comments.

[Stalker0]

I'm not a big module guy, but I will say I definitely wouldn't buy a module if it wasn't in my native system. Even if I could download the stats, to me the point of a module is as a timesaver.

Generally I make my own games, the only time I use modules is when I need an adventure and I have no time to spare. So if I have to consult multiple documents to run teh adventure, its a no go for me.

[delericho]

Originally Posted by Goodman Games

What's a module publisher to do?

Pick a system and run with it. Trying to cover all the bases is a fool's errand -you'll end up producing product that is less good than the 'native' versions for each system, so people will just go to the native publishers instead.

I would suggest that you should go with 4e, as that is the biggets group. However, if you have found that 4e adventures just don't sell, then go for the next biggest group (I assume that's Pathfinder?).

If those don't sell, then I suspect none of the other groups are big enough to even really consider. Which is a shame, but there it is.

[Henrix]

I don't think that systemless modules would sell we. They'd only really appeal to the old school crowd, I think, and that is hardly enough for Goodman.

4e is the biggest, and making a module for 4e means that you can just supply 3e stats and it works.
A 3e module does not really convert well to 4e, but the reverse is true. You'd perhaps have to do a few tricks to convert skill challenges (or just roleplay them), but that shouldn't be too hard.

Converting them to old school would hardly be a problem either. Supplying monsters and stuff that are available in all systems could perhaps be a little difficult, but I don't know - perhaps there are already open source versions you can use in most of them.

So, 4e modules with an old school feel would be just perfect.

[S'mon]

I definitely want the stats for the system I'm using there in the module; although a page reference to the relevant Monster Manual would do. I don't see much value in separately downloadable stats.

I've run a bunch of 3e & C&C DCCs and recently grown increasingly concerned about the lack of quality control; in particular the lack of good descriptive text/fluff in many modules. The maps are often poor, too. Interspersing them with old TSR modules has really brought home the gap in quality. I haven't used any 4e DCCs yet though, hopefully this has improved, and my e-download of Castle Whiterock looks decent.

[Blackbrrd]

Personally I think you would do well in the 4e market. Currently the only good campaign out there is the WotBS. WotC has uninspiring dungeon crawls and a lot of the 3pp products are uninspired dungeon crawls with crappy encounters.

I think that you will be mediocre products if you go the seperate-stat-block route. 4e and 3.5 has some major differences to how you run the game and combats.

I am using a lot of pre-made modules, but the two groups I am running has some overlap, so I need two different sets of good modules, but this doesn't exist. A subscription at about 6-7$ pr pdf shouldn't be a hard sell.

If you are doing the modules as PDF and print-on-demand as done by Enworld I think you should make one pdf for each target system. Make it for 4e to start with, get feedback and make the pdf's for the other target systems. Converting from 4e to 3.5 for instance shouldn't take more than maybe 30-40% of the time it took you to make the original, and you can reuse art/maps.