Dragons (part 2) - What should they be?

[MerricB]

Look to my original thread for a different version of this poll and discussion.

Rather than looking at a continuum of where people want their dragons to be, why not a smorgasbord? Select the options you need to make your basic dragon what you want it to be!

Feel free to elaborate.

Consider Smaug:
Bite, Claws, Wings, Breath Weapon, Intelligence, Minor magical powers (charming voice?), Can be found asleep in lair (but probably not). Does he have a fear aura?

Cheers!

 

[coyote6]

IIRC, folks were afraid of Smaug, but I didn't take it as being a supernatural mind-affecting power -- just good old, holy-crap-it's-going-to-kill-me fear of something bigger, more powerful, and malevolent.

 

[fba827]

i am not entirely certain where to draw the line between what classifies as major vs minor.
But,, I chose "minor" under the idea that it should be less potent and less frequent in attack than the physical attacks, but that could still be deadly none the less.

Also, I chose spellpower (over spellcasting) because they should just be able to will things based on their magical nature, not book studied magicians...

I do like the fear aura simply because they should be freighting. In theory, it should freighten the players enough to input this in to the PCs. But that doesn't always happen, so a stat mechanic works to facilitate this...

(just my take on it anyway, not saying it's really "right" one way or the other)

 

[Markn]

I wonder if Fear Aura is something that may eventually get dropped with dragons. While its cool for a dragon to have I am thinking that it is less and less needed. Maybe its time its replaced with something that makes dragons cool again.

FWIW, I like how 4e dragons are made, but I haven't had very many enjoyable experiences with dragons as solo creatures. Maybe its the game, maybe its the dragon design. Either way, I plan on trying out Elite dragons a lot more to see how they feel.

 

[MerricB]

The trouble with the fear aura is how it has changed over the years.

Originally, it wasn't actually something to bother the PCs with - it was there so any poor men-at-arms (and the odd henchman) went screaming away whilst the PCs fought the dragon alone. (Levels 5 or lower).

As the editions rolled on, it became something that affected any level of PC.

(I've just perused the Pathfinder SRD, and it seems that Frightful Presence isn't properly defined in the rules. Was this fixed in the Bestiary? The Universal Monster Rules list it as making the affected creature "frightened or shaken", but don't specify which - the dragon rules just say it works as in the UMR!)

Cheers!

 

[Dedekind]

Great poll idea. I foresee more of these in the future.

 

[Stormonu]

Smaug is, for me, the definition of a true dragon. He tends to be the dragon by which I judge all other versions of dragons I've seen. I also hold Verminthrax from Dragon Slayer in high regard in how a dragon should be presented. Saphira from Aragon comes in a moderate 3rd. Though I try not to think much about the movie, the dragon voiced by Sean Connery from Dragonheart comes to mind when I think "dragon".

So for me, that means its got to be a fire-breathing, armored and winged beast of doom. That can talk. And while it isn't mentioned of Smaug, its very existance is magic. Whether that means magical abilities or actual spell use doesn't matter; it just needs it.

I don't have a problem with dragons that don't talk or don't seem to be intelligent - like the Norweigan Ridgeback of Harry Potter or the dragons of Reign of Fire, (or sadly, the dragons of the 1st D&D movie) but in a game like D&D, those aren't true dragons; they're drakes, wyverns, orms, linnorms and the like. Dragon derivatives, but not true dragons. They have their place in the game and make excellent opponents, but they're just not "true" dragons.

I also have to agree about the opinion of fear. It seems more it should stem from a "We're all gonna die" when it lands in front of the group, more than from some supernatural aura the dragon exudes.

I think true dragons should be wondrous, and terrifyingly powerful. At the same time, I think there should be various dragon derivatives (dragon spawn?) PCs can face and fight and tell most folks "we fought a dragon".

And finally, having had a 1st level character (back in Menzer Basic D&D) who had a hand in our starting party subduing a sleeping black dragon, I think the subdual and "% chance sleeping" from earlier editions were horrible.

This whole thing has got me thinking - I believe one of the things I'm going to incorporate into my home campaign world is that true dragons lay many eggs, but perhaps only one of many dozen may hatch to be another true dragon...the others fail to aspire to gather the necessary majesty or power, and are born as lesser things - wyverns, drakes, draconians and other such lesser draconic beasts.

 

[Lanefan]

"Tail" is missing as an attack mode. [I'd vote for this]

"Poison" is missing as an attack mode (could be on teeth, in tail, whatever). [I would not vote for this]

"Wings/flight" needs to be broken out into "Wing attack" and "Flight ability". [I'd vote for flight but not for wing attack]

"Weapon or device" is missing as an attack mode. [I'd vote for this; nothing beats a dragon wielding a funky weapon or rod of wonder in its front claws...]

And the magic and spell powers are variable by individual; I voted for all of these, but not all dragons need to have each one.

Lanefan

 

[Runestar]

Problem is that in 3e at least, high-cr foes don't really get anywhere without some form of spellcasting support. Dragons are no exception either, though spellcasting does admitably cause huge fluctuations in their cr.

 

[MortalPlague]

I've always been of the opinion that dragons ought to have a swallow attack. I mean, they're big enough...