Does hack-n-slashing desensitize us to violence?

[Alzrius]

So the other day, I was reading a gamer blog, and this particular topic came up.

At first, the blog post seemed to be about playing in a campaign where the PCs faced "realistic" consequences for their actions. That is, killing things and causing general mayhem brought heavy legal and social consequences, akin to what would happen in (apparently contemporary) real life if people acted like that.

That part made for a pretty cool idea about running a game, since all of the campaigns I've played in had a much more "wild west" feeling to them, where the only justice was found at the end of a sword, and the battle lines were usually fairly clear.

But then, the blog started to talk about the effects of this sort of game on the players. The author made it very clear that he thinks that engaging in this sort of thinking - the idea of categorizing entire groups of sentient creatures as things to kill (e.g. "it's a group of orcs, let's get ready to fight") - was something that shaped the players' mentality over time, and encouraged them to think of actual categories of people (e.g. nationalities, ethnicities, etc.) in similar categorical, dismissive ways.

Now, to be fair, the author never said that engaging in fictional violence causes people to actually become violent. Rather, he was of the opinion that engaging in fictional violence (not just seeing it, but being an active part of it) desensitized people towards the idea of violence in real life. He considered this "obvious" that you were "training yourself to think in a certain way."

I personally don't believe in this at all. I've been playing RPGs for almost two decades, with plenty of campaigns and characters that have glorified the heroes for putting enemies to death. I'd like to think they weren't all totally simplistic, but at the same time I never included a heavy dose of real-world morality in a fantasy game (though obviously there was some morality, since the PCs are supposed to be heroes).

In all of that time, I don't believe I've become desensitized to violence that actually happens, both around me and in the world at large. I don't think my friends and fellow gamers have either. In short, I don't think that fictional violence shapes our mindset in any way (in fact, I think it might even be helpful to engage in that sort of imagining, as an outlet for violent impulses).

What do you think? Does violent role-playing shape how we think and react to actual violence?

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Clearly, based on the number of gamers who enter shopping malls to kill mallrats and take their stuff, RPGs are a violent threat to society as a whole and must be suppressed.

[People have made this case more vociferously about violent movies, TV shows, and video games for years, but I've never seen convincing statistics to back up the claims. RPGs are a pretty minor contribution in comparison to those forms of media.]

 

[Ahnehnois]

Can exposure to actual violent events desensitize a person to violent events? Yes.

Can exposure to fantasized violence desensitize a person to violent events?

That's a weak argument, and always has been. The ability to separate fantasy from reality is a hallmark trait for a normal adult human being. Whether it's in pulp novels, Hollyood blockbusters, or your weekly D&D game, most people compartmentalize and strongly separate fiction from their actual lives.

D&D violence is, in particular highly unrealistic. Damage has essentially no acute effects unless you take enough to kill or almost kill you. There's no such thing as a long-term injury or rehabilitation. Fire damage doesn't cause burn wounds. There's no such thing as psychological trauma (or at least no rules for it). Magic can almost instantly fix any consequence of combat, including death. A game using basic D&D rules has such sanitized violence, it's almost impossible to connect with reality; anyone who's ever been hurt or experienced violence will realize that D&D violence is unrealistic (as is violence in other media). D&D violence is generally less graphic than R or M rated material in other media.

If you adopt "gritty" rules which increase the lethality or add to the consequences of combat, you can gain an appreciation of what violence is. Trying to model injuries for my hit point system was a very interesting exercise. Similarly, watching a TV show where characters get hurt and have to live with their injuries or rehabilitate generally gives the viewer more of an apreciation for the reality of that situation.

So bottom line, I think that D&D violence is either so unrealistic it has no effect on perceptions of real violence, or realistic enough that it helps people understand real violence. I don't think that rpg-ers think differently about violent acts than the population at large.

 

[RedTonic]

The Escapist : Critical Miss: Gamer Science

I also think your standard tabletop game is less gory by nature than your average movie or videogame. There's only so far words can go compared to visuals, even if you have a really fine imagination. At this point, videogames soak up most of the blame--as a school age kid when Columbine happened, I don't remember much blame being tossed at pnp gamers, whereas a lot of mud was flung at certain musicians and videogames.

 

[Argyle King]

My opinion? No.



I know the OP asked about rpgs, but I tend to like pointing to Grand Theft Auto (the video game) when a topic like this comes up. Over the years, plenty of people have been outraged by the things presented in the game. Plenty have claimed it caused violence and blamed it for why certain people committed the acts they have.

My thoughts? The game series has quite literally sold millions upon millions of copies. A very very small handful of people have freaked out and committed violence after playing it. Does the math seem to indicate there's a problem with the game or that there was a problem with those specific people? ...seems to me that there are millions of people playing that game who go on functioning in life just fine.

 

[the Jester]

I roll my eyes at the suggestion.

 

[nedjer]

This is what the US Service has to say about videogames, movies and books causing school attacks:

Finding

Over half of the attackers demonstrated some interest in violence, through movies, video games, books, and other media (59 percent, n=24). However, there was no one common type of interest in violence indicated. Instead, the attackers’ interest in violent themes took various forms.

Explanation
• Approximately one-quarter of the attackers had exhibited an interest in violent movies (27 percent, n=11).
• Approximately one-quarter of the attackers had exhibited an interest in violent books (24 percent, n=10).
• One-eighth of the attackers exhibited an interest in violent video games (12 percent, n=5).
• The largest group of attackers exhibited an interest in violence in their own writings, such as poems, essays, or journal entries (37 percent, n=15).

So, no fears over Tabletop RPGs, which didn't even merit enough concern to be measured separately; but call the SWAT team fast if one of your players starts with the poetry recitals

 

[Alzrius]

Looking over the responses that this thread has gotten so far, I think that I did a bad job of explaining in my original post what the blog I read was positing.

The author wasn't saying that fictional violence caused real-life violence. He was suggesting that it made gamers less sensitive to it.

More specifically, he was suggesting that getting into the mindset that certain types of creatures deserved death - or at least, less consideration - led to people adopting that same attitude towards typifying groups of people in real life.

As an example, according to that author's logic, thinking "Oh, it's just a goblin. Should we even bother talking to it or just kill it and move on?" teaches that same player to think along the lines of "Oh, that person's a [ethnicity/nationality/political party member/etc.]. Do I even want to talk to them, or just move on and hope that they get killed somehow?"

In other words, the salient point was that hack-n-slash gaming engenders prejudicial thinking, which makes it easier to hold such prejudices in real life.

Of course, I still think that's a load of bunk, myself.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I don't think so. Just haven't seen it first hand. Nor have a read anything research that makes a strong argument for there being a connection. If anything I think it serves as a release valve.

I've heard the argument the blogger was making many times over the years from a variety of sources (and I do understand we are talking about desensitization here). I just don't buy it. Just because you allow your character to demonize orcs (which in game are evil) doesn't mean you would extend that kind of thinking to racial groups in the real world, or be less sensitive to violence against them. Personal experience is a much bigger factor I think. I know tons of gamers who blow off steam by slaughtering orcs, who are the most empathetic and sensitive people in the world.

I think the fundamental mistake the blogger makes is he assumes RPGs are teaching us how to behave and think in real life. He really needs to back that up with some evidence. This is a game, and the PCs are taking on the roles of heroes in a fictional setting where some races are inherently hostile toward them or even wholly evil. Since goblins don't exist. I wouldn't worry about it.

If you have someone at your gaming table with serious mental illness who can't distinguish clearly between make believe and reality, then of course that is another issue entirely. But on the whole, I think there is nothing wrong with violence in RPGs.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

A pretty heavy gaming load for a gamer might be a 6-hour session, plus another hour or two per week-- and I think the vast majority do far less than that. Gaming is a very small part of life for most people, and one recognized as entertainmet by the typically very well-adjusted folk who make up the gamer population.

That said, I agree that this:

...hack-n-slash gaming engenders prejudicial thinking, which makes it easier to hold such prejudices in real life.

is bunkum.

If anything, it's the other way around: our real-life prejudices are much more likely to influence our roleplay.