Social Skills, starting to bug me.

[dagger]

I have noticed a trend in all my characters that I don't like to put any points into social skills even for classes that have them as class skills.

I would prefer to role play and let the DM decide how the NPC reacts rather than leave it up to the dice. Or when I try to bluff, sometimes I do it well, and other times I do it badly. I would just rather the DM play off of how I actually do it in character than rely on my dice roll.

When we play AD&D (I’m the DM) the social skills thing is not an issue, but we play PF at the moment. I have been on a slow trend of being negative towards social skill rolls for a while before even 4e came out though.

I realize that I am probably in the low minority on social skills in modern games, but that's just how I feel. I might be that I started with 1e and we played that a lot until August 2000 when 3e came out. We still play AD&D but not as much...

I might be coming up on a time when I will have to DM something other than AD&D and I cringe at the thought (I have DMed 3e a lot in the past). I fear I will have to take a hatchet to the rules to make them something I want to DM and players might not like it.

 

[billd91]

I like games to have them in the system, even if there are tables that decide not to use them. The way I use them, once the player role-plays out their intention, I give out circumstance bonuses based on how good their hook is, their argument, their getting-into-characteryness, and then have them roll. This way I get to reward both good role playing and validate a character's investment in good Charisma and social skills.

 

[Hezrou]

I'm with you, I have been DMing since the days of 2nd edition as playing with the same people since then and even though we liked 3rd (and pathfinder which we now play) we never use any of the social skills and that's the way we like to play.

The game is already combat focused enough to be taking away from the roleplaying.

 

[Morrus]

Having them allows you to cater both to verbose players who love to talk, and to quiet players who are not as comfortable and skilled at roleplaying, or who aren't as confident or gregarious as others at the table. Not having them caters to the former and punishes the latter.

All in all, I think it's best to have them there as an option at least, even if the DM allows good roleplaying to strongly affect or even subsitute for the statistic.

 

[dagger]

This might be the wrong way to put it, but I hate trying to make the playing field 'level' for everyone.

Thats just the way I am though and the way I learned to play. I feel that if you want to play a leader/bard/face guy then you should break out of your mold and play it. I guess I am mean.

 

[billd91]

This might be the wrong way to put it, but I hate trying to make the playing field 'level' for everyone.

Thats just the way I am though and the way I learned to play. I feel that if you want to play a leader/bard/face guy then you should break out of your mold and play it. I guess I am mean.

Some classes already level the playing field. I don't have to be strong to play a fighter because the game mechanics handle that entirely for me, but I have to actually be eloquent to play a bard effectively?

You can get all defensive about it but there are a lot of people who don't value your play style, in part, because it effectively says "You must meet my arbitrary standards to play this character" and a lot of adults aren't particularly keen on that anymore.

I guess the added question about your play style would be: do you have a lower standard as a DM for players who aren't naturally very eloquent compared to ones who are when adjudicating social skills?

 

[dagger]

I guess the added question about your play style would be: do you have a lower standard as a DM for players who aren't naturally very eloquent compared to ones who are when adjudicating social skills?

Quick answer: No I don't. (see below)

Longer:

I have DMed a lot of 3.0/3.5 in the past and have run games like you run yours. The other main DM does use the social skills in game quite a bit as well and I see your point about helping players who are not good at RP (and want to play Face).

 

[Yora]

I always used what the developers for 5th Edition called "advantage". You can use a skill or not, but if you make a really good description of your action, the DM awards a significant bonus to any rolls that come up.

 

[Janx]

ah geez, not this again....

there was a series of threads a month or two back on this, where we discussed things from the angle of the stats, and whether your forced to play them a certain way.

If you have a low CHA, are you supposed to play your PC as bad at talking to people?

This is related to your question. If you don't use the skills, are you even using the stat? How do you abjudicate me having a 6 CHA and being able to speak convincingly to an NPC (the GM). Because in my group, I really am the guy most likely to convince somebody to do something.

How do you keep my personal ability in check, as compared to the stat on my PC because I used CHA as a dumpstat?

My personal interpretation of the situation was:
the player can say his PC acts however he wants (diplomatic or rude)
The skill check is what determines if the NPC is ammenable to the player's intent (not portrayal).

Do NOT give a roleplaying penalty/bonus to the check. This will double-hurt/help the player who properly plays a low ability in a negative way, because you will naturally react to it AND then roll for it.

Instead, give out XP bonus for roleplaying as befits the character.

Be consistent with rolling social checks for NPC reactions, so that low stat PCs are not getting a free ride by coasting through social encounters (perhaps by avoiding saying anything).

 

[Elf Witch]

This might be the wrong way to put it, but I hate trying to make the playing field 'level' for everyone.

Thats just the way I am though and the way I learned to play. I feel that if you want to play a leader/bard/face guy then you should break out of your mold and play it. I guess I am mean.

Yes you are.

I have players who have shyness has an issue who don't always want to play the quiet loner type or to stand in the corner while more outgoing people get to have all the fun.

Having social skill rolls allows them to play a bard or a leader. The thing is they all try and role play it out first but knowing that the dice is there to lend a helping hand makes it easier fo them to out themselves out there.