Black Box GMing - Would you play with it?

[nnms]

A while back, a miniature gaming buddy described an RPG campaign he played in where 100% of the system resolution was handled by the GM with no player-GM interaction in rules terms. Everything was in fictional descriptive terms with the GM spitting out results using whatever system he happened to be using.

Have you ever played in such a thing?

Would you play in such a thing?

In the example above, it even included character generation. The GM asked a bunch of questions which narrowed down exactly what kind of character you wanted. Questions were like "If everything about your character was average, what would you want to change the most?" and "What is your character best at, above everything else?" and "What about second best?"

I'm thinking this type of play could be well suited to skype or google+ hangout type gaming. Or even play by post. But in person, I'm not so sure.

 

[nedjer]

A while back, a miniature gaming buddy described an RPG campaign he played in where 100% of the system resolution was handled by the GM with no player-GM interaction in rules terms. Everything was in fictional descriptive terms with the GM spitting out results using whatever system he happened to be using.

Have you ever played in such a thing?

Would you play in such a thing?

In the example above, it even included character generation. The GM asked a bunch of questions which narrowed down exactly what kind of character you wanted. Questions were like "If everything about your character was average, what would you want to change the most?" and "What is your character best at, above everything else?" and "What about second best?"

I'm thinking this type of play could be well suited to skype or google+ hangout type gaming. Or even play by post. But in person, I'm not so sure.

Played lots of this style with younger players who aren't remotely interested in crunch. Not so much descriptive as narrative exchanges. New players can use some prompting from the GM to start with, but the GM's the only one who has to know or shape consistency within the framework.

 

[Crothian]

I'd only do that for special circumstances. It is a lot of extra work for the DM and the players can be sitting there doing nothing while the DM rolls dice and stuff.

 

[nnms]

Played lots of this style with younger players who aren't remotely interested in crunch. Not so much descriptive as narrative exchanges. New players can use some prompting from the GM to start with, but the GM's the only one who has to know or shape consistency within the framework.

The application for playing with younger players should have been obvious to me. Thanks for bringing that up.

And the distinction between narrative and descriptive exchanges is also interesting. There is no reason this type of approach wouldn't work with "who gets their way in the narrative" rather than "do I succeed in the task I've described attempting?"

I take it you simply meant that the younger play would supply/negotiate larger chunks than just a single act being described.

I'd only do that for special circumstances. It is a lot of extra work for the DM and the players can be sitting there doing nothing while the DM rolls dice and stuff.

So another issue: Making sure you use a system that is either light or fast enough for this approach.

 

[nedjer]

I've a post of a short, unusually combative actual play of a session along these lines. The player - 9 - was largely oblivious to the rules, but had played numerous sessions. She, therefore, had a good idea of what to ask and where it might lead; plus a PC sheet with just a bunch of pictures to choose from. Typing up more of them is somewhere on a long list.

 

[nnms]

I've a post of a short, unusually combative actual play of a session along these lines. The player - 9 - was largely oblivious to the rules, but had played numerous sessions. She, therefore, had a good idea of what to ask and where it might lead; plus a PC sheet with just a bunch of pictures to choose from. Typing up more of them is somewhere on a long list.

That's really neat. Seems to have produced good play.

I think I may have gone from idle curiosity to starting to hunt down a suitable system and talking to some friends about trying it out.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

A while back, a miniature gaming buddy described an RPG campaign...

Well, assuming such a system could be played with normal-sized gaming buddies, too....

... I'd certainly be open to trying, as either GM or player, and either verbally online or face-to-face. Seems like it would either be too much work or no work at all for the GM, since he could warp & waffle the ruleset at whim. As a player, I think it would be fine, though it would take a special GM to pull it off. I might be tempted to try to figure out which rules the GM was playing by, as well.

Honestly, though, I don't see that such a campaign would last very long, except with very story-telling oriented players. Out of curiosity, do you know how long this player's campaign lasted?

 

[Hussar]

We've batted this idea around a few times in different groups and with different systems. Never got off the ground though. For one, the visceral effect of picking up and rolling dice cannot be ignored. For another, it was just to much of a PITA for the DM.

I'm just about to introduce some new players to the hobby with Weird West - which is about as light of a system as you can get, and I'll still be letting them roll and making sure they have at least a basic grasp of mechancis.

I honestly don't think that the trade-offs are worth it. IMO, you don't really gain any immersion by excising numbers from the game. There's too much time of the DM playing with himself behind the screen, determining what happens.

 

[nnms]

Well, assuming such a system could be played with normal-sized gaming buddies, too....

Next time, I'll try to keep my rampant sizism in check.

... I'd certainly be open to trying, as either GM or player, and either verbally online or face-to-face. Seems like it would either be too much work or no work at all for the GM, since he could warp & waffle the ruleset at whim.

I'm looking into some lighter rules sets. I'd want to be consistent with the rules rather than simply free form everything.

As a player, I think it would be fine, though it would take a special GM to pull it off. I might be tempted to try to figure out which rules the GM was playing by, as well.

That would be an additional fun puzzle to tack onto play for those who really know systems well.

Honestly, though, I don't see that such a campaign would last very long, except with very story-telling oriented players. Out of curiosity, do you know how long this player's campaign lasted?

As far as I know, it lasted quite a few sessions (almost a year of weekly play) until the GM got deployed to Afghanistan.

I'm more of a mini-series player when it comes to RPGs. I don't really like single session one shots, but I also don't like perpetual campaigns.

 

[nnms]

We've batted this idea around a few times in different groups and with different systems. Never got off the ground though. For one, the visceral effect of picking up and rolling dice cannot be ignored.

Definitely. I was thinking it'd probably be better for online voip type play.

For another, it was just to much of a PITA for the DM.

This does seem to be the major concern expressed so far.

IMO, you don't really gain any immersion by excising numbers from the game. There's too much time of the DM playing with himself behind the screen, determining what happens.

I'm not sure yet whether or not I agree with the the immersion thing having never tried it before. I'd probably change "don't really" to "might not."

The time behind the screen thing may be an issue. In fact, it may be *the* issue.

EDIT:

I just put Risus, Warp (aka Over the Edge) and MiniSix on my ereader.