It allows you to search the
messageboards, send and receive private messages, give yourself a
custom usertitle, turn ads on or off, create a custom style for your
profile, get a nifty badge under your username, and gives you a special
warm glowy feeling! Oh, and it gets rid of this annoying message, too!
General RPG Rules Discussion[WAS CALLED "Pathfinder/OGL/D20 GAMES"] Discuss the rules of Pathfinder, d20 Modern and any other game except D&D, such as Arcana Evolved, Mutants & Masterminds, Star Wars Saga, and the like.
I am officially fed up with D&D and it's combat based system. I'm looking for something that is more skills based and with an emphasis on role-playing rather than combat. Preferably similar to the old Star Trek RPG by FASA.
I have a basic version written up myself based on it, but if it already exists, I don't want to reinvent the wheel.
What I am looking for:
Rules Light! - and I mean very light, less than 100 pages of material for all books combined wo9uld be super.
Skill based - where actions outside of combat require more than just a glossing over.
Combat variable - not the center of the stage, but easily integrated into the system.
Not GURPS - sorry I don't like GURPS, not elegant and too many rules (in the latest edition)
Other information: Does not have to be a generic system, but that would be a bonus. Monster design is quick and painless. Magic can be scaled to near non-existence without destroying the system. Not level based (but this isn't necessarily a deal breaker.).
I like running historically based anachronistic style games, where real world history can be altered slightly to make the world more believable. I don't like total reliance on magic (of any type) to make the system usable, but like having the option to make it available. Don't mind systems where classes are not "equal" just so everyone is the same (PC don't work for me). Can be modified to suit any unknowns, similar in make up to the original 1eAD&D, but with much less rule finagling.
Does this system even exist or should I start working on my generic translation of the old FASA system? Thanks for any help.
"I may be unconscious, but at least I still look good!" - - Me (at the Halfling Musketeers game GenCon '06)
On one hand, taking away their weapons is a dead giveaway that they will need them. On the other hand, by the time conflict starts the players will already have opened the rulebooks and found the parts that deal with bare-handed combat, performing disarm moves, and using improvised weapons. Players may blunder through dialog with shocking ineptitude, forget the name of the country they are in, or get confused about which side they are on, but once it comes time to roll for initiative they all turn into Sun Tzu. - Shamus Young DM of the Rings
Hm. BRP? I know, it's a little bit over 100 pages. . .
Haven't had a chance to pick it up, let alone try it, yet. Still, I've heard some good things, and based on your criteria, hey it might just work.
Actually, while I'm at it, something I have tried - and liked! - is EABA. Not sure if it's quite the thing for you, but well, it's a hell of a lot closer to 100 pages, and it works surprisingly well, IME. If you didn't mind adding page count, the supplement called 'Stuff' (IIRC) is pretty ingenious - you can build gazillions of things with it. Just thought I'd mention it.
Last edited by Aus_Snow; 9th October 2008 at 02:06 PM..
Second for Savage Worlds. You can get the test drive rules free (see my sig). You could conceivably run a fantasy game with nothing but the test drive rules and their fantasy bundle, available for free at their website.
__________________ "No, no thats not how you uphold the law...You gotta get 'em in the head, they go down quicker." -Officer Barbrady
Cortex System (by Margaret Weiss Productions) is pretty good. The generic version is on the way (I think they released some copies at GenCon) w/ magic, psionics and so on. You could also pick up Demon Hunters which has magic, but is not as generic, set in the modern day world (and some humor thrown in, which may not be your thing).
The system was pretty buggy back when it first appeared in Serenity RPG, but since Battlestar and Demon Hunters, I have high hopes for the generic version.
The main thing I like about it: very simple, and the Plot Points it uses promote roleplaying your character's flaws BIG TIME. It's possibly the best system I've ever used for a more social, roleplaying-as-opposed-to-rollplaying-but-the-system-isn't
-all-broke-during-combat game. I like it a lot.
Savage Worlds seems to have more support though, and can be had for cheaper.
__________________ --neuronphaser
========================================
A Quote from Lord Ernie @ ENWorld.org:
"So... as I understand it, this whole thread comes down to a couple of things.
1. Attack and AC curve in such a way that high levels no longer result in auto-miss or auto-hit depending on your BAB.
2. Ability scores and racial influences matter strongly across the board (related to point 1)
3. At all levels, PC's need to work together to survive.
Location: the bustling metro that is...East Providence, RI
Posts: 3,768
Another huge vote and thumbs up for Savage Worlds. It's my new addiction. I just started a modern horror campaign with my group using the Pinebox setting from 12 to Midnight.
Savage Worlds is awesome. Very easy to learn and make characters but the gameplay is still deep enough to provide a lot of customization. Can also be used with and without miniatures.
It also nails every other point you made: it's generic, creating monsters and NPC's is a piece of cake, magic and powers are very easy to integrate, and it's skill-based.
I'm pretty much ready to drop all d20 gaming right now.
I would love to see the Storyteller system done in a fantasy RPG that was just straight fantasy and not over the top fantasy like they have done with Exalted.
True 20 isn't too bad if you haven't taken a look at it yet. It tends more toward RP than D&D. Pathfinder is trying to hold onto the older D&D feel and is a possible. Song of Fire and Ice is due to come out soon from Green Ronin and is a skills\politics\intrigue based system; you can find the quick play rules to take a look at it on their website.
AEG's Legend of the Five Rings and Legend of the Burning Sands offer a different system although they are themed for orient and Arabian settings, but you could work out the differences I am sure. AEG's Seven Seas game used the same system and was more victorian era pirate theme.
Margaret Weis productions has or will be releasing a basic guide using their Cortex system that is pretty decent and used with the Battlestar Galactica and Serenity games. The system is definitely skill based.
Without doing some customization it will be hard to find a straight up system outside of D&D and what I've listed or has already been suggested that isn't conveluted to some extent.
"Not everybody likes the same sort of games.
Everybody ought to play the sort of games they like.
It's not a stupid idea to sometimes try something you're not sure if you like or not.
Just because somebody likes or dislikes something you feel differently about doesn't make them (or you) stupid or a jerk.
Except Julie Andrews. If you dislike Julie Andrews, you're a jerk. And Golden Retriever puppies." --Barsoomcore
"There is a handsome and mysterious stranger in your future. He will try to kill you and take your stuff." --Sejs
I would love to see the Storyteller system done in a fantasy RPG that was just straight fantasy and not over the top fantasy like they have done with Exalted.
I actually almost put "World of Darkness / Storyteller" in my post above.
It's a very good system, but does take a lot of work to adopt it to something else, I think (not the basic rules, but anything beyond that is very setting-specific).
The system itself would be very suitable for a generic RPG, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neuronphaser
The system was pretty buggy back when it first appeared in Serenity RPG, but since Battlestar and Demon Hunters, I have high hopes for the generic version.
While slightly off topic... would you mind to go into a bit more detail what you consider buggy about Serenity? I only got that one from the MWP games (will pick up the generic Cortex book, when it is available here), and would be curious what problems it might have still which would possibly require some attention.
Bye
Thanee
__________________
“In our world, immortality is not for the living. The legend lives on!”
In Memoriam E. Gary Gygax (* 27th July, 1938 — † 4th March, 2008).
I LOVE True20, but I don't think it matches your needs very closely.
Rules Light! - it is this - the pocket player's guide is about 150 pages, but that includes ancient and modern equipment and such.
Skill based - Very similar to any d20 game
Combat variable - perhaps too close to D&D for you, but no hit points!
Not GURPS - It is quite shocking in its non-GURPSness
It is a generic system. Monster design is better than D&D but not by much. It is level based, but the DM decides when you level, and it is not as CLASS based as D&D
Rules Light! - and I mean very light, less than 100 pages of material for all books combined wo9uld be super.
Skill based - where actions outside of combat require more than just a glossing over.
Combat variable - not the center of the stage, but easily integrated into the system.
Not GURPS - sorry I don't like GURPS, not elegant and too many rules (in the latest edition)
Other information: Does not have to be a generic system, but that would be a bonus. Monster design is quick and painless. Magic can be scaled to near non-existence without destroying the system. Not level based (but this isn't necessarily a deal breaker.).
I like running historically based anachronistic style games, where real world history can be altered slightly to make the world more believable. I don't like total reliance on magic (of any type) to make the system usable, but like having the option to make it available. Don't mind systems where classes are not "equal" just so everyone is the same (PC don't work for me). Can be modified to suit any unknowns, similar in make up to the original 1eAD&D, but with much less rule finagling.
Does this system even exist or should I start working on my generic translation of the old FASA system? Thanks for any help.
Hmm. I know it may sound strange, but apart from the <100 page requirement, WFRP2e may be a pretty good match. On second thought, the actual rules may be <100 pages, but the rest of the corebook is setting material.
* Skill based. There's tons of skills. Skills are based on attributes, but can be improved separately from them.
* Scalable combat rules that match up with the system pretty well. Combat is scary enough that your players should avoid it. It's also based on the same percentile system as the skills are. You can have entire campaigns without combat. You can decide how complex to make armor, which can greatly simplify things.
* Magic is rare enough that many campaigns won't have a wizard in the party. The system most certainly doesn't fall apart.
* Not GURPS. Check.
* Historically-based. WFRP is more or less set in a fantasy version of late medieval Europe.
* No levels. WFRP uses a wonderful Career system, where characters improve in their skills and attributes while moving from career to career, starting out as rat catchers and tomb robbers, and moving up to knights and champions.
I really like Dogs in the Vineyard, but that's almost entirely roleplaying based "combat". It's different.
I really liked the New World of Darkness rules. They worked well for combat, but they had a lot of other stuff. We used them to do a "D&D" game set in the Underdark. It was a ton of fun.
I've played Savage Worlds: Deadlands. It was definitely unique.
While slightly off topic... would you mind to go into a bit more detail what you consider buggy about Serenity? I only got that one from the MWP games (will pick up the generic Cortex book, when it is available here), and would be curious what problems it might have still which would possibly require some attention.
Maybe buggy's not the right word, but incomplete is. Serenity could be played as is, but the refinements that have shown up in Battlestar and Demon Hunters make all of the rules much clearer, and bring the focus on the Plot Points even more to the forefront, especially in terms of how they are generated by roleplaying your Complications and how they can concretely affect the story.
It's also interesting to note the subtle changes between Traits that can be found in both Battlestar and Demon Hunters. The two settings have drastically different genres, and the traits had a few minor tweaks here and there that help emulate the respective genre better, but without any sort of whackiness in balance or anything. It shows that Cortex can work in different genres with very little work.
I tend to find games either promote roleplaying a lot or do combat well, but rarely both. Cortex seems to do both really well.
Hate to sound like a fanboy, but I really haven't found anything bad about the system yet.
I've never read Savage Worlds, but from the reviews I've read and the times it comes up in discussion boards, it sounds like the two are very similar, but Cortex has the "Plot Points generated by playing your Complications" thing which improves on the RP aspect.
Not saying it's better because of this, but that seems to be the major difference.
__________________ --neuronphaser
========================================
A Quote from Lord Ernie @ ENWorld.org:
"So... as I understand it, this whole thread comes down to a couple of things.
1. Attack and AC curve in such a way that high levels no longer result in auto-miss or auto-hit depending on your BAB.
2. Ability scores and racial influences matter strongly across the board (related to point 1)
3. At all levels, PC's need to work together to survive.
Formerly Known As Frukathka 
Linear Mode
