Well, anyone who has been paying attention (which I'm guessing is exactly five people, i.e. those who are playing) knows that my adventure, Echoes of O, is winding to a close. The PCs are locked in combat with the big bad, and they currently outnumber their foes, so it'll be all wrapped up sometime next week, next Saturday at the latest.
I mention this because I'm looking for feedback. Not just from the players, but the community. Was it the pacing good? Bad? Sending the party's wizard into a temper-tantrum is never a good sign. What about the NPCs? Marley was supposed to be respected and feared, but overall likeable. Was this achieved? Was Marley going "super saiyan" too cliche?
I also mention this because, always a forward thinker, I've got a sequel in the works. And a sequel to the sequel. And even a sequel to the sequel to the sequel. And I'm trying to gauge the interest.
__________________ “The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!”
- Jack Kerouac Lorik Oh god, the temptation
I mention this because I'm looking for feedback. Not just from the players, but the community. Was it the pacing good? Bad? Sending the party's wizard into a temper-tantrum is never a good sign. What about the NPCs? Marley was supposed to be respected and feared, but overall likeable. Was this achieved? Was Marley going "super saiyan" too cliche?
Honestly, I thought Marley comes off as too perfect. He's a powerful crime lord, but he's honourable, rich, powerful, has a good sense of humour, isn't phased by any of the weirdness we spout, and is clearly a hero. It seemed like the only reason he wasn't solving everything himself was that he was too busy doing other things, which isn't a great way to make the players feel important.
So then coming back and finding him apparently dead was brilliant! "Oops, that super-powerful guy who's more heroic than you got his ass kicked! Guess it's all up to you now, good luck!" I really felt like we were in for a good fight for a while there! (Even when he turned out to be alive again, it didn't take away from that, because the bad guys were still powerful enough to disable and capture him, and the focus was still on us.)
Then when he busted out - I didn't like that much at all. Takes too much of the focus away from the heroes. Focusing on just one enemy and letting us take on the rest is a pretty good way to handle this, but I would have preferred it if he'd stayed incapacitated until the end of the fight.
I had the same problem in a game I DM'd last week, actually. I'd set up two powerful rivals and statted them both out as end bosses, with the idea that the players would side with one of them and fight the other one - but the way it went down, they ended up fighting one with the other one present and I couldn't think of a good reason he wouldn't join the fight on their side. And because he was supposed to be an end boss, he was about as powerful as the entire party together, and toning him down would have led to questions about why his rival didn't just kick his ass long ago... I ended up having him get a few good hits in before the rival hit him with a mind-trapping illusion spell (which I'd made up on the spot) that took him out of the fight entirely and let him focus on the players.
So, to summarize: characters that outclass the playes are best kept mostly off-screen, IMHO, or used as backgrounds. (Fighting powerful enemies around the feet of an angel battling a titan = cool, since the players are SO outclassed that they're beneath their notice so they're more like scenery, like a volcano erupting, than actual characters. Once the characters are at a scale where they could be considered legitimate rivals to the players, but still clearly outclassing them, they start to steal the spotlight.)
The only other criticism I have of the adventure is that the answer to what happened to Marley was pretty much handed to us. I'd have liked a bit of investigation instead of just being led to the next location. (But I guess then it would have been hard to justify that the ritual wasn't over by the time we got there, so maybe it was better this way. I guess a good medium would have been to find some token that Ash would recognize as belonging to Hyann or coming from that specific warehouse, instead of having an NPC blurt out, "It must have been Hyann, and here's where to find him!" I found that pretty unconvincing.)
Other than that, the adventure was great, and 7 Rabbit is definitely very interested in getting in on the sequel (especially if it involves learning more about the nature of spellcasting...) It goes without saying that the echoes were awesome. I thought the number of things Marley's echo was able to do at once was a little ridiculous at first, but it turned out to be a really good fight (and my own tries to create solo's always fizzle, so I think you have a better handle on how much they should be able to do than I do).
On Marley, I can see what you mean on some issues, but just wait. The idea behind the ganglords of Daunton was that they could have been adventurers; in another life, they could have been powerful forces for good in the isles. Instead, they chose to stay in the slums rather than fight evil abroad. "Good" and "honorable" are facades that Marley likes to put on, but you'll see that he's a petty crook at heart, just like the rest of 'em (and there are more. You will meet them. They aren't nice).
As for solo monsters, it is best to take an existing solo monster and modify it to meet your needs. Fun activity: try to figure out which monster the Echo of Marley was based off of! (No cheating by looking at the adventure submission)
__________________ “The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!”
- Jack Kerouac Lorik Oh god, the temptation
JNC said what I was thinking, but articulated it better than I would have.
The only other bit I would add is that the Echo of Marley ended up using some abilities in combat that weren't part of the stat block you presented to the judges. When it did, I went and chased down the original monster you based it on and the powers it used were clear analogues, so I didn't say anything. I think it all worked out well enough, but if you're going to use more custom monsters in the future -- and I hope you do -- please include the whole stat block in the proposal next time.
But, really, these are all minor quibbles. The bottom line is that you've run an interesting, action-packed, fast-paced adventure. In a PbP environment, that's a fantastic achievement, and you should be proud of the result. Well done!
On Marley, I can see what you mean on some issues, but just wait.
Well, maybe my opinion of Marley will change based on what happens at the very end of the adventure - that's the danger with giving feedback before it's actually over. (I was assuming "heroic" because I thought the wings indicated Marley was actually a paladin - looks like the Angelic Avenger path to me.)
__________________ “The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!”
- Jack Kerouac Lorik Oh god, the temptation
I've updated the XP award post to fix a minor arithmetic error and (more importantly) give you Major Quest reward XP. Check it out and update your character page accordingly! Thanks to our talented Judge, Dunamin, for pointing this out to me!
__________________ Gary Hoggatt - www.garyh.net "Such heroic nonsense..."
I'll think up some thoughts to share about Echoes of O (eventually ...), but first, I just wanted to say:
You MMC guys, I totally called Kartharath. I think I called that way back when you met the kobold bounty hunters. Probably because it's something I'd do, haha. I'm actually pretty surprised none of you saw it coming Anyway, good luck to you all - you'll probably need it!
You MMC guys, I totally called Kartharath. I think I called that way back when you met the kobold bounty hunters. Probably because it's something I'd do, haha. I'm actually pretty surprised none of you saw it coming Anyway, good luck to you all - you'll probably need it!
I'm afraid I may have just used up all my good luck. On the bright side, I think we have a good shot at the first PC death record. Unless I kill Atreus first...
Don, your game is great. Although it moved so fast I felt like i was playing catch-up most of the time. But that's my fault for having so many vacations >< Anyway, I too am eager to see the ending before finalizing an opinion of Marley, but JNC pretty much said what I was thinking. Although I'm perfectly happy for the help.
Quick Question for all you experienced people out there. I plan to start a game shortly and wondered how recruitment is handled? Does the DM NPC go into the tavern and pick which PC's that they want in their game, or is it first come first served? Any suggestions for starting this bad boy up are welcome.
Recruitment in the tavern is common, but by no means required. Another option is to post notice here in the general discussion thread. A new option that I have considered lately is posting a news-flash in the Screamer.
You don't have to pick whoever comes first. The trend seems to be that players discuss among themselves where recruitment is posted, until a well-rounded party is formed. It’s courteous, however, to give preference to players that aren't already involved in a game with another PC.
Ok, I've posted in the Screamer asking interested parties to drop a line here, then I'll RP out the recruitment in the tavern, tailoring it to the selected PC's
, what is the procedure for something like that?
I'm all kinds of newbie to PbP, this is outside of my realm of experience.
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