L4W Discussion Thread IV

[garyh]

This thread is a continuation of the third discussion thread (which had grown to prodigious length).

This is for general discussion. If formally making a specific rules proposal, please begin a new thread for your proposal.

Generally Useful Links
Character Creation Guide
L4W Forum
L4W Wiki (Main) - includes a lot of important but somewhat random information
The Transitive Isles - the wiki that explains the setting; includes links to more detailed sections

If you have an idea about what character you want to play you can also just join us in the Tavern and roleplay.

[stonegod]

Now that its Fall Break and I'm done with Batman: Arkham Asylum, I'll chomp on the new wiki some more this weekend. I'll start w/ LEB first and move to LEB templating as I have time.

Is there any thought on restructuring the L4W intro wiki pages? Right now, its a bit busy (and doesn't really get to the point... its about the old build up info not about what is).

[garyh]

Like much of the wiki, I agree that the main L4W page could use some updating and attention, but haven't gotten to it.

Heck, it's taken me weeks to cobble together my first LEB PC (and I'm still not done).

[Mal Malenkirk]

Originally Posted by Theroc

Would a 17 con be a good choice for a bump-up?

Or 19 STR. It's probably better to pump the primary stat but dragonborn makes it a close call because they make additional use of CON over what the Earthstrenght warden provide. CON also bump the dragonbreath damage and improve the healing surge value of a dragonborn warden in addtion with the other benefits. But +1 to hit is +1 to hit... It's a close call.

You are probably better off with 10 WIS and 8 Int, but otherwise, no, you don't shoot yourself in the foot by having a low WIS.

You will notice plenty of Warden ability that make use of WIS... but you just won't select them, that's all! You'll select ability that make use of CON or are indifferent to any stats.

[Fragsie]

Originally Posted by stonegod

Now that its Fall Break and I'm done with Batman: Arkham Asylum, I'll chomp on the new wiki some more this weekend. I'll start w/ LEB first and move to LEB templating as I have time.

Is there any thought on restructuring the L4W intro wiki pages? Right now, its a bit busy (and doesn't really get to the point... its about the old build up info not about what is).

Originally Posted by garyh

Like much of the wiki, I agree that the main L4W page could use some updating and attention, but haven't gotten to it.

Heck, it's taken me weeks to cobble together my first LEB PC (and I'm still not done).

I'd be happy to help out with some wiki work; I don't know much about template building, but am up for helping restructure a bit n try to tidy the info up a bit. I'll have some time tomorrow afternoon (GMT). Is the new stuff going across to the new wiki platform?

[Theroc]

Originally Posted by Mal Malenkirk

Or 19 STR. It's probably better to pump the primary stat but dragonborn makes it a close call because they make additional use of CON over what the Earthstrenght warden provide. CON also bump the dragonbreath damage and improve the healing surge value of a dragonborn warden in addtion with the other benefits. But +1 to hit is +1 to hit... It's a close call.

You are probably better off with 10 WIS and 8 Int, but otherwise, no, you don't shoot yourself in the foot by having a low WIS.

You will notice plenty of Warden ability that make use of WIS... but you just won't select them, that's all! You'll select ability that make use of CON or are indifferent to any stats.

I actually didn't notice that many that use wisdom, at least not early on. Most are str vs AC rolls with bonus effects gearing off str or con.

Thanks for the advice though.

Edit: Question
If a power says "Melee 2" does that mean it reaches two squares if normal reach was one? Meaning, would it reach three squares if using a reach weapon? Or would it be two squares regardless?

[Ozymandias79]

No, sorry, the range of an attack with melee 2 is unaffected by reach as it has a set range, which does not change

[Theroc]

Originally Posted by Ozymandias79

No, sorry, the range of an attack with melee 2 is unaffected by reach as it has a set range, which does not change

Ah. Hm... wonder if a reach weapon would be good or not then...

[TwoHeadsBarking]

I think Wardens like reach because it allows them to attack marked adjacent enemies who shift and charge. Also, reach is occasionally pretty handy by itself. Of course, so is the massive defensive bonus from the shield, but you're already going to have a lot of hp from being an Earthstrength Warden, so maybe you could do without it.

[JoeNotCharles]

Originally Posted by Theroc

Ah. Hm... wonder if a reach weapon would be good or not then...

I'm running a Reach-weapon using warden (Ironheart, in the Ring of the Fey Lord thread). Halfway through his first real battle, he really hasn't used Reach at all because he has to be adjacent to an enemy to mark it, and once he's there he tends to stay adjacent anyway.

[Theroc]

Yeah, that was one thing I was wondering about. Especially since the Warden has powers to drag opponents back to him.

A friend of mine is recommending either the great spear or fullblade from the adventurer's vault, depending if I want reach or not.

Any opinions on those two? Would they be worth the feat to gain proficiency with them?

[garyh]

I don't think reach is all that important to a warden. If you want to go with a two-handed weapon, the fullblade is my favorite, and is worth the feat. +3 prof, 1d12, high crit? It's awesome.

[Theroc]

Well, I'm not 100% set on a 2 handed weapon, but I'm wondering how much that +2 to AC and Reflex is worth when compared to using a better, more damaging weapon(especially considering a Warden's HP)

[Mal Malenkirk]

Personnally, I am always leery of a defender who lets go of his shield.

+2 to AC, +2 to reflex and an additional magic item slot that you lose if you go two-handed... That's a lot to give up for an increase of +1 to damage per [W].

Especially if you have a CON build; by pumping both STR and CON you are bound to end up with a dragging reflex score. Can't really afford to also drop the shield, IMO.

Nah, I want my shield. With a bastard swords or Waraxe, preferably*. Leave the two-handed weapons to barbarians and avengers.


*Yeah, don't forget that you can't compare the fullblade to the longsword. You either compare the greatsword to the longsword or the fullblade to the Bastard sword.

[Ozymandias79]

Mal, what extra slot? shields takes up the arms slot

[Theroc]

I wasn't compared 1 hand quality to 2 hand quality, I was assessing the value of a shield, and I wasn't certain.

So, given you chose waraxe over something like the craghammer, I'm guessing you didn't feel the brutal quality was worth the smaller die size?

[Mal Malenkirk]

Really?

Not on the character generator, they don't. They take the off-hand slot.

Onward to the compendium!

[Ozymandias79]

Mal, check where you find the shields on DDI.

Theroc, I would go with craghammer for a warden but that is my personal opinion, as I thinks it would look more of thematic fit for a warden

[Mal Malenkirk]

Originally Posted by Theroc

So, given you chose waraxe over something like the craghammer, I'm guessing you didn't feel the brutal quality was worth the smaller die size?

I didn't name them all out of practicality, but they are almost the same thing.

Craghammer and Waraxe have the same average damage (1+12/2 vs 3+10/2) per roll.

The Waraxe actually do more average damage because it causes higher critical but then the craghammer is more reliable when you want to mop up near dead enemies and has the better hammer feats going for it (Such as Hammer Rythm in higher level). Of course, you have to be willing to put in these feats so it is useful to map out your progression and see if you will be able to fit these feats in over other feats you might like to take.

But at any rate, it is clear you want to be taking either waraxe or craghammer (or battleaxe and warhammer) because you are CON build and pretty much any feats improving axes and maces will require CON whereas heavy blades require DEX.

[Theroc]

So, a craghammer is worth spending a feat for? I was wondering, though, I didn't see a whole lot to improve accuracy(which is more important than damage for a defender, I'd wager).