PHB Length and Contents

[Hassassin]

How long should the PHB to be and how should those pages be used?

I think the ~300 page PBH is too long. 200 pages would be better, IMO:

Core		- 10 pages (RPGs, Abilities, checks, character creation)
Races		- 10 pages (4-10 races)
Classes		- 20 pages (4-10 classes)
Kits/Themes	- 20 pages (class customization and background)
Skills		- 10 pages 
Feats/Talents	- 20 pages (or maneuvers or whatever)
Magic		- 50 pages (6 spells/page - around 300 spells)
Equipment	- 20 pages
Adventuring	- 20 pages (exploration, interaction, quests, rewards)
Combat		- 10 pages
Indices		- 10 pages (including glossary, list of tables etc.)

Total		- 200 pages

(Tried to post a poll but failed. Oh, well.)

 

[Grazzt]

128 pages. See AD&D PHB 1e for inspiration.

 

[Kingreaper]

I think we need two PHBs. A short one, maybe 100 pages, with only the basic core (four races, four classes, basic rules, just enough spells to play with etc.) and a long one, with all the PHB1 classes from all editions, all the PHB1 races from all editions, a good set of spells, etc.

 

[Grazzt]

How long should the PHB to be and how should those pages be used?

I think the ~300 page PBH is too long. 200 pages would be better, IMO:

Core		- 10 pages (RPGs, Abilities, checks, character creation)
Races		- 10 pages (4-10 races)
Classes		- 20 pages (4-10 classes)
Kits/Themes	- 20 pages (class customization and background)
Skills		- 10 pages 
Feats/Talents	- 20 pages (or maneuvers or whatever)
Magic		- 50 pages (6 spells/page - around 300 spells)
Equipment	- 20 pages
Adventuring	- 20 pages (exploration, interaction, quests, rewards)
Combat		- 10 pages
Indices		- 10 pages (including glossary, list of tables etc.)

Total		- 200 pages

(Tried to post a poll but failed. Oh, well.)

Actually- you could probably cut down the page count for skills. Depends on how detailed you wanted them to be. Dragon Age for example just basically gives a general overview of what each one (called Focuses, not skills in the DA RPG).

Open the skill section with rules on skills and how they work. Then follow with a basic table listing standard DCs (like DC 15 for average, DC 20 for hard, whatever). Give general overview of skills after that. No need for tons of rules or charts or tables under the skills. Let the DM set the DC based on what he feels is right. Like Climb for example, just overview what it does. The DM can decide how much to increase the DC when climbing a slippery surface, or rough surface, or whatever.

 

[Hassassin]

Actually- you could probably cut down the page count for skills. Depends on how detailed you wanted them to be. Dragon Age for example just basically gives a general overview of what each one (called Focuses, not skills in the DA RPG).

Open the skill section with rules on skills and how they work. Then follow with a basic table listing standard DCs (like DC 15 for average, DC 20 for hard, whatever). Give general overview of skills after that. No need for tons of rules or charts or tables under the skills. Let the DM set the DC based on what he feels is right. Like Climb for example, just overview what it does. The DM can decide how much to increase the DC when climbing a slippery surface, or rough surface, or whatever.

I assumed there would be a page or two on class skills and how you gain skills as you level up. Also, another page or two for complex skill checks (something like skill challenges, fixed) for things like chases, tracking, diplomacy or rituals. In 3e it takes six pages before they get to the actual skills. I agree that skill descriptions should be shorter.

 

[jodyjohnson]

A lot of the page count differences between editions is based on font size, margins, and art.

You can cram a lot in a book with 1/2" margins, 10 pt font, and minimal art.

But a book with tiny print becomes less appealing as the gaming base ages and their eyesight deteriorates.

Electronic books are becoming more appealling as text scaling and magnification becomes more necessary.


--I don't read print DnD books, I just browse them and look at the pictures.

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

I agree that a concise Player's Handbook makes sense. Though, if the book can drop below two hundred pages, I'd want it combined with the Dungeon Master's Guide. The ultimate cost difference between a 200 and, say, a 400 page book is insignificant next to the cost of two 200 page books.

 

[FATDRAGONGAMES]

I think we need two PHBs. A short one, maybe 100 pages, with only the basic core (four races, four classes, basic rules, just enough spells to play with etc.) and a long one, with all the PHB1 classes from all editions, all the PHB1 races from all editions, a good set of spells, etc.

Would love to see this. A basic PHB with only the core rules that apply to everyone, then an 'advanced' book full of all the optional 'plug-in' rules. races, classes, etc. This way, no matter what style of D&D you play (OD&D-4E) everyone uses the same core book, and nobody feels like there is a bunch of material in their core that is a waste for them. Plus the shorter the intro game book is, the easier it is for new players to pick up and learn, and it won't intimidate them with a page count like a phone book.

 

[Tallifer]

I think we need two PHBs. A short one, maybe 100 pages, with only the basic core (four races, four classes, basic rules, just enough spells to play with etc.) and a long one, with all the PHB1 classes from all editions, all the PHB1 races from all editions, a good set of spells, etc.

Forsooth. A Starter Box for Old Schoolers, children and new players. Very simple, very limited. 100 or so pages.

And an Advanced Players' Handbook for 4thers and 3rders, teenagers, experienced players and those who love options. 400+ pages.

People who want slim books buy the former. People who want everything buy the latter, and probably both.

The worst thing would be for the Players' Handbook to cater only to the minimalist crowd. Not everyone wants to re-create the Fellowship of the Ring ad nauseum.

 

[kiltedyaksman]

Nerf these and save space and trees:

Kits/Themes - 20 pages (class customization and background)
Skills - 10 pages
Feats/Talents - 20 pages (or maneuvers or whatever)