underfoot007ct
First Post
Racial Ability Modifiers seems to be an interesting topic, so lets see what people think via a poll.
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Opinions on Racial Ability Modifiers
- Thread starter underfoot007ct
- Start date
underfoot007ct
First Post
TwinBahamut
First Post
First "other" reply: No ability modifiers but really major racial features.
For example, a Giant race that let's players be Large-sized (or even bigger) with all the accompanying benefits, but has no bonuses to Strength or penalties to any stat whatsoever. So, they can carry more and such, but not via stat enhancement.
Another example would be a race that is physically and mentally identical to a human, but has the ability to fly.
For example, a Giant race that let's players be Large-sized (or even bigger) with all the accompanying benefits, but has no bonuses to Strength or penalties to any stat whatsoever. So, they can carry more and such, but not via stat enhancement.
Another example would be a race that is physically and mentally identical to a human, but has the ability to fly.
Ratskinner
Adventurer
I voted for the second option, but really wanted to vote for the second and third. I'd even be okay with bigger abilities as level increased.
Anyway, my feeling is that if you want to play something different...you should play something different. Take the good with the bad. There should be solid, but not overbearing, mechanical differences to the races. If you don't like that, then just have everyone play a human and let the elf write "pointy-eared" on his character sheet. And I mean that seriously.
I've actually been musing lately whether the Basic/Core game should even have other races at all, just to avoid this. Maybe make the traditional demi-humans' module "uncommon" or whatever.
Anyway, my feeling is that if you want to play something different...you should play something different. Take the good with the bad. There should be solid, but not overbearing, mechanical differences to the races. If you don't like that, then just have everyone play a human and let the elf write "pointy-eared" on his character sheet. And I mean that seriously.
I've actually been musing lately whether the Basic/Core game should even have other races at all, just to avoid this. Maybe make the traditional demi-humans' module "uncommon" or whatever.
I voted other, as none of the choices quite fit my views on the matter.
Must have Racial ability bonuses, but NO ability penalties
I'm sympathetic to this position, as I strongly dislike ability penalties. I prefer to play with point-buy rather than rolled stats, and ability penalties can really hurt when it comes to point buy. If one absolutely insists that some race must be at a disadvantage in some stat compared to the baseline, I say give them a racial cap to that ability. Don't charge them any more than the next character to get there.
However, I don't insist on ability modifiers existing at all, so it's not quite the right answer for me.
Must have Racial ability Bonuses, And Ability penalties, need game balance
I've already said my bit about ability penalties, but wanted to express my puzzlement about the game balance bit here. There's nothing inherently more balanced about having penalties to ability scores.
NO Racial ability changes, but some minor features (ie stone cunning)
Like I said, I don't necessarily insist upon racial ability bonuses, but neither do I reject them entirely. They're a viable option. I also like racial features, though some of the things that have been racial features over the years seem much more like cultural features than racial ones.
If elves have a bonus to dexterity, for instance, and dexterity is used for archery, then there's a natural inclination already for elves to use archery as it's something they tend to have the ability for. Giving them automatic proficiency in bows is a culture thing, though, not a racial thing. Unless one wants to claim that elves have racial memories (an interesting fluff option, but not traditional), why would simply being born an elf make you proficient in bows?
NO Racial ability changes, NO features, just flavor & fluff
This doesn't appeal to me at all. This option is very easy to achieve even if mechanics abound: you just ignore the mechanics. Removing mechanics is a heck of a lot easier than creating good ones, so I'd much rather WotC did the heavy lifting for me.
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I'd like race selection to be an important step in character creation, that has an immediate impact at first level, and remains relevant at the level cap.
I want to be able to look at a character sheet, and without looking at the race written down, be able to tell what race the character is.
I want to be able to play an human fighter in one campaign, and an elf fighter in another campaign, and know that even if I give them the exact same stats and gear, the mechanics will make them feel different in play.
I also want culture divorced from race. Or if not completely divorced, having a trial separation.
Do I know how to go about doing all of that? Eh, not really. That's what they pay the designers for.
Must have Racial ability bonuses, but NO ability penalties
I'm sympathetic to this position, as I strongly dislike ability penalties. I prefer to play with point-buy rather than rolled stats, and ability penalties can really hurt when it comes to point buy. If one absolutely insists that some race must be at a disadvantage in some stat compared to the baseline, I say give them a racial cap to that ability. Don't charge them any more than the next character to get there.
However, I don't insist on ability modifiers existing at all, so it's not quite the right answer for me.
Must have Racial ability Bonuses, And Ability penalties, need game balance
I've already said my bit about ability penalties, but wanted to express my puzzlement about the game balance bit here. There's nothing inherently more balanced about having penalties to ability scores.
NO Racial ability changes, but some minor features (ie stone cunning)
Like I said, I don't necessarily insist upon racial ability bonuses, but neither do I reject them entirely. They're a viable option. I also like racial features, though some of the things that have been racial features over the years seem much more like cultural features than racial ones.
If elves have a bonus to dexterity, for instance, and dexterity is used for archery, then there's a natural inclination already for elves to use archery as it's something they tend to have the ability for. Giving them automatic proficiency in bows is a culture thing, though, not a racial thing. Unless one wants to claim that elves have racial memories (an interesting fluff option, but not traditional), why would simply being born an elf make you proficient in bows?
NO Racial ability changes, NO features, just flavor & fluff
This doesn't appeal to me at all. This option is very easy to achieve even if mechanics abound: you just ignore the mechanics. Removing mechanics is a heck of a lot easier than creating good ones, so I'd much rather WotC did the heavy lifting for me.
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I'd like race selection to be an important step in character creation, that has an immediate impact at first level, and remains relevant at the level cap.
I want to be able to look at a character sheet, and without looking at the race written down, be able to tell what race the character is.
I want to be able to play an human fighter in one campaign, and an elf fighter in another campaign, and know that even if I give them the exact same stats and gear, the mechanics will make them feel different in play.
I also want culture divorced from race. Or if not completely divorced, having a trial separation.
Do I know how to go about doing all of that? Eh, not really. That's what they pay the designers for.
mach1.9pants
Hero
I like the pathfinder way, 2 bonuses and one penalty so not really balance as your poll says so I said other
delericho
Legend
I went for option 3 (no ability mods but minor racial features), but like TwinBahamut, I dispute the "minor" part of that. While I wouldn't go with his approach of having some really major racial traits, I don't think stonecutting, or things of that ilk, is really up to par.
Basically, at first level I think races should get the stuff that every member of the race gets - probably some skill modifiers, low-light vision if appropriate, and perhaps a minor power or two. Then, as you gain levels, your choice of race opens up the option to take dedicated racial feats and/or powers, and use dedicated racial items.
And that's basically it.
The reason for avoiding ability score modifiers is that these seem to immediately become the focus for choosing a race. Want to play a Fighter? Well, you best pick from these races, because otherwise you don't get that juicy Strength bonus. It has two deleterious effects, IMO: players choosing a given race solely for the ability mod (giving rise to the "humans with funny noses" thing); and there being a massive penalty for playing against type.
Since all of the proposed ability score generation methods allow for the player arranging his stats as desired, there is no need for ability mods - if you want your half-orc to be stronger than the average, just put a really high score in Strength!
Basically, at first level I think races should get the stuff that every member of the race gets - probably some skill modifiers, low-light vision if appropriate, and perhaps a minor power or two. Then, as you gain levels, your choice of race opens up the option to take dedicated racial feats and/or powers, and use dedicated racial items.
And that's basically it.
The reason for avoiding ability score modifiers is that these seem to immediately become the focus for choosing a race. Want to play a Fighter? Well, you best pick from these races, because otherwise you don't get that juicy Strength bonus. It has two deleterious effects, IMO: players choosing a given race solely for the ability mod (giving rise to the "humans with funny noses" thing); and there being a massive penalty for playing against type.
Since all of the proposed ability score generation methods allow for the player arranging his stats as desired, there is no need for ability mods - if you want your half-orc to be stronger than the average, just put a really high score in Strength!
I don't like ability penalties, because they can really ruin a good concept, like Tiefling bard or sorcerer. If anything, I prefer bonuses.
However, more exotic races like pixies (Str) or half-ogres (Int) can still have penalties, I just want them to be an exception to the rule that is only applied when the race is truly far below average in something.
Also, the game should make it easy to switch your main attack / magic stat with feats or similar.
However, more exotic races like pixies (Str) or half-ogres (Int) can still have penalties, I just want them to be an exception to the rule that is only applied when the race is truly far below average in something.
Also, the game should make it easy to switch your main attack / magic stat with feats or similar.
Fede
First Post
I voted other, and I agree with you. No ability score bonus or penalites, but races distinguished by special abilities or features.
