avin
First Post
Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (Consume, Engage, Cherish)
New art article is up.
My vote was "cherish"
New art article is up.
My vote was "cherish"
Consume, Engage, Cherish
- Thread starter avin
- Start date
My vote was "consume." Of course my opinion was really a combination of the different elements, but I picked one that I thought was most important.
I think the core rules should follow the "consume" model. Make it easy to reference and understand the material first and foremost. I could see a bit of "engage" in the DMG, but I'd really like the core rules to be lean and focused on what you need to run the game.
Introductory products (like the red box) and campaign settings should follow the "engage" model. You might also have a series of "genre books" that also follow it, similar to Heroes of Horror or Heroes of Battle from the 3.5 era. There's also room for an "engage" version of the DMG that focuses on crafting campaigns and adventures from a narrative perspective, similar to the way 3.5 and 4E did a DMG and a DMG 2.
I think the core rules should follow the "consume" model. Make it easy to reference and understand the material first and foremost. I could see a bit of "engage" in the DMG, but I'd really like the core rules to be lean and focused on what you need to run the game.
Introductory products (like the red box) and campaign settings should follow the "engage" model. You might also have a series of "genre books" that also follow it, similar to Heroes of Horror or Heroes of Battle from the 3.5 era. There's also room for an "engage" version of the DMG that focuses on crafting campaigns and adventures from a narrative perspective, similar to the way 3.5 and 4E did a DMG and a DMG 2.
For me the main thing is engage. The core books are the doorway to the game and should showcase everything I can do with it. They should create an experience that makes me want to play and keep playing (and buying, if you are cynical).
Limited edition runs and more specialized products (leather-bound 3.5 core set) may also have treasure/cherish value.
I don't like consume-focused products, like most splatbooks seem to be, but all products should be accessible.
Limited edition runs and more specialized products (leather-bound 3.5 core set) may also have treasure/cherish value.
I don't like consume-focused products, like most splatbooks seem to be, but all products should be accessible.
ExploderWizard
Hero
The very best products will have elements of all three. The information will be concise and focused, the product will draw you in, and you will cherish it forever.
Ahnehnois
First Post
I like my easily consumable hypertext SRD rules.
Then again, I also remember how evocative some of the art is, and how much the "flavor" text played into my perspective on what the game could do.
So as much as I hate the generic answer, I simply couldn't rationalize picking one over the other.
Then again, I also remember how evocative some of the art is, and how much the "flavor" text played into my perspective on what the game could do.
So as much as I hate the generic answer, I simply couldn't rationalize picking one over the other.
Scribble
First Post
I'm a combo guy myself. I like what he was talking about towards the end where the books kind of morph to meet what they are trying to accomplish.
When it comes to stuff that gives me inspiration the "look and feel" of the book should match. When it comes to stuff I'll be using directly at the table- I want it easy to read, navigate, and use.
When it comes to stuff that gives me inspiration the "look and feel" of the book should match. When it comes to stuff I'll be using directly at the table- I want it easy to read, navigate, and use.
delericho
Legend
Just to be awkward, I want different things from different products.
At this point in time, I want the Core Rules to be consumable - I already know what RPGs are, I don't need to know what a dwarf is, and I'm not looking to be drawn into the hobby. Just tell me what I need to know to play the game! And the same should apply to most splatbooks, books of magic items, and so on.
But the Starter Set absolutely should be designed to engage with new players - they need to be drawn in, they need to see the action in their mind's eye. Roleplaying games can be quite hard to grok; the Starter Set needs to help them with that!
Likewise, setting materials and adventures should be designed to engage with the customer, whether said customer is experienced or not.
As for "cherish"... I'm not sure they should be designing products for that purpose, at least not in the core line. The reason the author cherishes his OD&D booklet is not because of anything inherent in the book - it's the memories that he has associated with it. The same is true for me with my Red Box, 2nd Ed core books, and 3.5e PHB - the reason I prize these so highly is because of endless hours of memories of gathering with good friends. So that probably shouldn't be a major design consideration.
(That said, there's certainly an argument for doing a "collector's edition", or leather-bound version, or whatever for the new edition. That's fine... but they should probably make the game a success first, and then give it the deluxe treatment.)
IMO, of course.
(Oh, and also: good article!)
At this point in time, I want the Core Rules to be consumable - I already know what RPGs are, I don't need to know what a dwarf is, and I'm not looking to be drawn into the hobby. Just tell me what I need to know to play the game! And the same should apply to most splatbooks, books of magic items, and so on.
But the Starter Set absolutely should be designed to engage with new players - they need to be drawn in, they need to see the action in their mind's eye. Roleplaying games can be quite hard to grok; the Starter Set needs to help them with that!
Likewise, setting materials and adventures should be designed to engage with the customer, whether said customer is experienced or not.
As for "cherish"... I'm not sure they should be designing products for that purpose, at least not in the core line. The reason the author cherishes his OD&D booklet is not because of anything inherent in the book - it's the memories that he has associated with it. The same is true for me with my Red Box, 2nd Ed core books, and 3.5e PHB - the reason I prize these so highly is because of endless hours of memories of gathering with good friends. So that probably shouldn't be a major design consideration.
(That said, there's certainly an argument for doing a "collector's edition", or leather-bound version, or whatever for the new edition. That's fine... but they should probably make the game a success first, and then give it the deluxe treatment.)
IMO, of course.
(Oh, and also: good article!)
Marius Delphus
Adventurer
Combo. The books should be useful AND immersive AND gorgeous. That part's easy. Striking just the right balance -- that's hard.
See Zeitgeist for an example of approximately where I think the balance could be set....
ETA: And will somebody PLEASE make sure text baselines line up between columns this edition. TIA...
See Zeitgeist for an example of approximately where I think the balance could be set....
ETA: And will somebody PLEASE make sure text baselines line up between columns this edition. TIA...
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Hussar
Legend
Presuming we're talking about Core Rulebooks and not adventures or campaign setting books (because that's a whole 'nother ball of wax), I'd say a combination of Consumable and Engage-able with a strong leaning towards consume. And, for core books anyway, cherish-able can go straight out the window. These are rule books. You want a coffee table book, buy a premium edition. This is something I'm going to be toting around in a backpack, plopping on tables along with various foods and drinks. I'm not going to be wearing white gloves while I use my books. And I do mean "use".
Look, I love the 3e books. I do. But, dammit, sometimes they were bloody hard to read. So, first and foremost, it has to be consumable. These are rules references. Sure, make it pretty, but, given the choice between pretty and easily referenced, I'll take easily referenced every day. I'm only likely to read the books cover to cover once. But I am likely to flip through the books repeatedly looking for this or that.
The Core books are tools, and, IMO, should be viewed as such. I don't insist on my hammer being "pretty" and I sure as heck don't cherish it. I want my tools to do the job and be the best tool they can be. Everything else is just icing.
Look, I love the 3e books. I do. But, dammit, sometimes they were bloody hard to read. So, first and foremost, it has to be consumable. These are rules references. Sure, make it pretty, but, given the choice between pretty and easily referenced, I'll take easily referenced every day. I'm only likely to read the books cover to cover once. But I am likely to flip through the books repeatedly looking for this or that.
The Core books are tools, and, IMO, should be viewed as such. I don't insist on my hammer being "pretty" and I sure as heck don't cherish it. I want my tools to do the job and be the best tool they can be. Everything else is just icing.
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