Blog: Paladin vs. Cleric, fight!

[gyor]

Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible!

Sounds like the Paladin new motto will be to Smite and Protect. I still want multiple alignment choices.

 

[MortalPlague]

I think your link is broken.

I could find it by clicking on "Blog", then the top entry, though.

 

[KidSnide]

I am wary of too many abilities that specifically target evil because the usefulness of these powers is very campaign dependent.

In some games, pretty much everything the PCs fight or confront is properly "evil" -- in the alignment sense. In other games, true "evil" is special, unusual, and typically a major threat. A real "anti-evil" power makes sense for a paladin in both of those games, but an ability that is balanced in one is unlikely to be balanced in the other.

If Paladins do get specific anti-evil powers, the rules should state the campaign assumptions under which those powers are granted so DMs can make the necessary adjustments.

-KS

 

[Blackwarder]

I don't mind having some over the top classes but if there are any o would like them to add some restriction to them such as minimum ability scores or alignment requirements.

Warder

 

[Ahnehnois]

I am not sure what the problem is with the link in the original post, but this link did work for me. In any case, you can navigate and find it.

For the record, I hate the paladin; it's pretty much the definition of "buzzkill".

But if you were going to work it around being a class that can be any alignment, I would want to see some non-spell supernatural powers built around smiting and granting various bonuses to the party, as well as some kind of significant healing, and some kind of option for mounted combat (but that's definitely not for everybody). Sort of a fighter/cleric/warlock/warlord mix.

 

[tlantl]

Some how the picture Monte paints of the paladin as protector comes across as party baby sitter.

I kind of like the cavalier reference though. I instantly saw a picture of a halfling paladin on a war dog.

I'm okay with the paladin being focused on dealing with evil foes but I hope that's not all they are going to get as class abilities. I don't generally use a lot of "evil" in my games. I don't have adventures designed to pit the players against big bad guys.

I see adventurers as people who are out to plunder the world for it's lost or forgotten treasures. There are seldom any world shattering events taking place or great armies of undeads trying to annihilate the population, or much else that a Paladin can use his major class features against.

Maybe the focus might better be on the paladin fulfilling an oath or completing a quest or something other than destroying evil.

 

[Minigiant]

"You know, I have one simple request. And that is to have paladins with frickin' angel wings attached to their backs! Now evidently my celestial colleague informs me that that can't be done. Can you remind me why I grant you people spells? Honestly, throw me a bone here."

I pretty much want paladins to slowly evolve into the LG paragon: angels. So I am fine with them having magic youngest, teleporting, smiting, ally bolstering, shielding, and flight.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I see adventurers as people who are out to plunger the world for it's lost or forgotten treasures. There are seldom any world shattering events taking place or great armies of undeads trying to annihilate the population, or much else that a Paladin can use his major class features against.

Yeah the paladin is, imo, an inappropriate class for old school sword & sorcery gold=xp 'Clark Ashton Smith-esque greedy treasure hunters getting their comeuppance' Gygaxian play. It's a lot more appropriate for the post-Gygax, PCs are the heroes, epic quest, Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms-style D&D.

Mind you, the cleric is pretty inappropriate for the former style of play too, and he's been there since the beginning.

 

[Astrosicebear]

The main problem with Paladins isn't the class... its the people who play it wanting the abilities but not the downsides/rp aspects... they want a fighter with powers. Not all, but most have a very, very difficult time pulling off a believable paladin... and most of the time they all want to be Grey Wardens and nix the restrictions inherit to the class.

I say boil the Paladin down in abilities into what is "core" features of the class, and then theme out the builds from there. Want a cavalier, choose that theme and get some nice mounted combat bonuses and Mount. Want to be a smiting hold avenger, then choose the Holy Warrior theme and get additional smite features etc.

The cleric is and acts very differently from a paladin in play, even in previous editions where a cleric could be a much better fighter than a fighter.

 

[YRUSirius]

I like paladins as the embodiment of lawful good virtues as represented by the avatar in the Ultima series.

And yeah, paladins shouldn't have a god. They shouldn't be holy warriors. This is the domain of the cleric. Paladins should be something different.

-YRUSirius