RPG.net ripping Pathfinder apart

[Sammael]

I just spent an amusing half an hour browsing the RPG.net negative Pathfinder thread. Linky: [Pathfinder---] What don't you like? - RPGnet Forums

While some of the complaints are clearly idiotic (like the "problem" with 1st level clerics flooding the world with orisons, which was debunked a few posts after being made), some seem to be... quite valid.

I also just almost fell out of my chair laughing after reading some poster's flavorful descriptions of some barbarian rage abilities:

I HATE THIS STUPID ING MOUNTAIN

GRR I AM HOPPING MAD

THIS IS THE ANGRIEST BACKSTROKE IN THE WORLD ARGH

But seriously, who in his right mind would EVER pick a barbarian rage ability that was so limited in scope?

There are more claims in that thread, but I don't want to copy/paste them here, so read on... and then maybe we can discuss some of the more valid ones.

[Gorbacz]

Half of the posters in that thread didn't even bother to read the PFRPG. They just read some vitriol on the Den and spread it further.

[Hunter In Darkness]

True, I do not go to that section over there as your not welcome if you do not hate Pathfinder. Trying to correct a misconception or something they just have wrong will get you dogpiled and little else.

[Hunter In Darkness]

Originally Posted by Sammael

But seriously, who in his right mind would EVER pick a barbarian rage ability that was so limited in scope?

There are things called character concepts and Backgrounds I can think of uses for every power listed and why a character may take them.

The swimming one is very easy. Raiders, and pirates come to mind right off bat."Lost to your battle rage you just jump over the side of the ship ship with the adrenalin pumping though you the water offers little resistance as you quickly make your way to the ship"

I can not tell you how useful this one have been to a barb one of my players had.

It is not about anger or being mad it's about the adrenalin rush that come with rageing. And that explains most of the powers

[Sammael]

Sorry, but no. I am all for background flavor and actively encourage it in my games (with various neat little benefits), but an ability that causes you to swim faster for a minute and then drown because you got fatigued is just silly.

I'm not questioning the flavor, which is fine. I'm question the implementation, which is not.

[Rechan]

Originally Posted by Sammael

but an ability that causes you to swim faster for a minute and then drown because you got fatigued is just silly.

Heh.

But let's face it. If you're still swimming after a minute (10 rounds), you're probably all ready boned.

[DM_Jeff]

Originally Posted by Gorbacz

Half of the posters in that thread didn't even bother to read the PFRPG. They just read some vitriol on the Den and spread it further.

100%. It's funny to read for a very short while but then just gets sad from all the 'facts' they either made up or just got flat out wrong. It's OK, everyone needs a hobby.

-DM Jeff

[Hunter In Darkness]

Originally Posted by Sammael

Sorry, but no. I am all for background flavor and actively encourage it in my games (with various neat little benefits), but an ability that causes you to swim faster for a minute and then drown because you got fatigued is just silly.

I'm not questioning the flavor, which is fine. I'm question the implementation, which is not.

Then you should not have done it. However without the power your in the same boat if you rage but don't have the extra ranks to swim. And for my example you can cover that distance and be out of the water well and before your out of rage

You can rage now as a free action so you can kick in the power when ever you need it. Swimming though rough water or what have ya, It does indeed fit some concepts very well

[Sammael]

Would it have killed the concept if, for example, the barbarian was able to have an adrenaline surge not just when swimming, but when performing any strenuous physical activity in general?

[Jadeite]

The way rage and rage powers work in the Final, the movement powers are on of the lesser problems.
As is the ability to create lots of water.

[random.brown]

Pathfinder is a great game, let's leave the bashers in their own space.

[Scurvy_Platypus]

Originally Posted by Hunter In Darkness

True, I do not go to that section over there as your not welcome if you do not hate Pathfinder. Trying to correct a misconception or something they just have wrong will get you dogpiled and little else.

As a guy that spends his time between both places... you're wrong.

There's just as much love for Pathfinder and folks going on about how awesome it is and how it fixes all their problems as there is hate.

The thread in specific that's being mentioned was actually _marked_ as a negative thread, for people to discuss/bitch/whatever without having a bunch of people showing up and arguing with them that they're "wrong". You might not like it, you might not understand it, but there it is.

I'll also note that there's several _other_ threads that are explicitly marked as _positive_, meaning people aren't allowed to show up and say what a problem this or that is and so forth. So it's not a complete hatefest over there.

I'll note part of the reason for the annoyance is because up until now when people pointed out problem with Beta, when all else failed, people defending Pathfinder would frequently fall back on "Well, it's the Beta. We don't know what the final rules are going to look like." This is after James Jacobs talking about the fact that the final was going to look _more_ like 3.5 than the Beta. This was also after having a decent chunk of Pathfinder fans talking about how Pathfinder was "fixing" all kinds of problems in 3.5 and even calling Pathfinder "3.75". So yeah, some of the natives are riled up and blowing off some steam.

I gotta say, I'm kinda disappointed in the apparent attempt to get some cross-board feud going or something.

[Sammael]

I wasn't trying to start a cross-board feud, if that's what you're implying. I only visit RPG.net 2-3 times a year, and this time I actually stumbled onto the forum after googling for something completely different.

I just felt like sharing that there are apparently lots of people who have silly qualms about Pathfinder, but also some valid ones.

[Hunter In Darkness]

Originally Posted by Scurvy_Platypus

As a guy that spends his time between both places... you're wrong.

No I am not. The {+} thread go maybe 3 posts before a troll pops in, nothing is ever done, I am not going into mass detail no point in a war or anything but You have your experience there I have mine and I am leaving it at that

[Scurvy_Platypus]

Originally Posted by random.brown

The vitriol spread over there in general keeps me away.

That, and the perma-ban they gave me for being politically incorrect about the mods' pet issue....

Errrr....no, my understanding is you were given a 1 day suspension for violation of RPG.net policy and that was then turned into a permaban based on an email that you sent. You might not like the rules, but if you're posting to a forum you've got to expect to follow them or face consequences.

This also has absolutely nothing to do with rpgs, roleplaying, or Pathfinder, so I'm not going to say anything more. It just annoys me when there's random sniping going on of different forums for no good reason.

[Scurvy_Platypus]

Originally Posted by Hunter In Darkness

No I am not. The {+} thread go maybe 3 posts before a troll pops in, nothing is ever done, I am not going into mass detail no point in a war or anything but You have your experience there I have mine and I am leaving it at that

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by Sammael

I just felt like sharing that there are apparently lots of people who have silly qualms about Pathfinder, but also some valid ones.

I saw some pretty stupid things in that thread too... and a number of people pointed out where folks were wrong about a bunch of their complaints too. That whole "flooding the world" thing for example... there was some stupidity. Especially since even I know a Decanter of Endless Water would be a heck of a lot better way to achieve what some of those guys were reaching for.

I posted in that thread too, complaining about the removal of the Overhand Chop chain. If you've got a reasonable response to me, I'd be more than happy to discuss it here. The post in question is this one: RPGnet Forums - View Single Post - [Pathfinder---] What don't you like?

I bought the pdf because I had to do so; the group I'm in is making the switch so I needed to have the rulebook or stop hangin' out with them. $10 U.S. is an easy enough buy-in. At the end of the day, I think the Beta rules are a lot better, which is ... odd ... for me, since I wasn't thrilled with Pathfinder to begin with. I felt they should have actually tried to make changes/fixes to the rules and that wasn't actually their goal. *shrug* If I had to run a Pathfinder game, I'd probably cherrypick some of the bits from Final and backport them the to Beta.

Oh and one thing I found out is I was wrong about one thing in the post: I'm not losing 3 points of AC, it's only 2. Armor apparently was changed and I missed that. So it's a 3 point loss due to the Armor Training feat changing, but then a +1 because Platemail is worth 1 more point than in 3.5/Beta.

[jaerdaph]

Originally Posted by Scurvy_Platypus

Errrr....no, my understanding is you were given a 1 day suspension for violation of RPG.net policy and that was then turned into a permaban based on an email that you sent. You might not like the rules, but if you're posting to a forum you've got to expect to follow them or face consequences.

This also has absolutely nothing to do with rpgs, roleplaying, or Pathfinder, so I'm not going to say anything more. It just annoys me when there's random sniping going on of different forums for no good reason.

Yeah, I'm not really seeing the connection between getting banned for calling gay people deviants and edition wars.

[GlassJaw]

Originally Posted by Hunter In Darkness

True, I do not go to that section over there as your not welcome if you do not hate Pathfinder. Trying to correct a misconception or something they just have wrong will get you dogpiled and little else.

Yeah, I don't see this either at all. I've found that there are equal supporters for 3.5, Pathfinder, and 4E.

I'll agree that RPG.net can be a bit more opinionated at times but overall, RPG.net is a very good resource, especially for non-d20 and general gaming discussions.

[ST]

Quick! Let's see if we can get a RPG.net thread about the ENWorld thread about the RPG.net thread! You won't believe what they said about Suzie's dress. It was shocking.

Hope nobody gets sent to the principal's office for passing notes.

Yeah, ok, I'd gossip too, it's fun. I just can't think of much interesting about the topic, except it's neat how the Pathfinder forums tactic of "Well from how that guy posted, it's clearly a troll/ a hit and run/ a copy from the Den forums" (whatever that is) has started to spread to other places.

It's like, when someone criticizes your game for something that wasn't changed from 3.5, it's possible that they're not engaged in a conspiracy to smear the game so much as they don't really like 3.5, they read Pathfinder, and saw it was mostly still 3.5. Obviously not everybody feels that way, but certainly some people do, and I doubt they have an agenda or anything.

[jaerdaph]

RPGNet = EN World + Circvs Maximvs*

*(and prior to that, Nutkinland!)



Seriously though, I agree with GlassJaw that RPGNet is a great creative resource just like EN World is. I have tons of bookmarks to some pretty awesome idea-generating threads.