I cast a blast spell, you say: how high?

Herzog · Jun 22, 2008

Let me get this straight:

-there are no rules on the hight of blasts and/or bursts?
-there are no rules on vertical measurement?

that is, all advice and rules given in this thread so far are, in fact, houserule additions to the RAW?

sorry, but what have those playtesters been doing all this time? I find it hard to believe this has never come up in a playtesting session.

Errata on rules that can be misinterpreted, copy/paste errors, omissions in power blocks, all that I can understand with the first printing of a new ruleset.

But the complete omission of rules governing the third dimension?
I feel like I'm playing Doom.....

Herzog

Danceofmasks · Jun 22, 2008

There are rules for movement in 3 dimensions .. to the song of
1) just move as normal, a diagonal up is just one square
2) count range as normal, by number of squares.
3) determine cover as normal, for obstacles, etc.

DMG p45+

but I can't seem to find anything on area effects ...

Herzog · Jun 22, 2008

@Danceofmasks:

yes, sorry about that. you posted while I was typing my post.
I found the 3d movement part, thanx for the reference.

Herzog

Alarius · Jun 22, 2008

Herzog said:
@Danceofmasks:

yes, sorry about that. you posted while I was typing my post.
I found the 3d movement part, thanx for the reference.

Herzog

There are no rules according to what I see on the vertical dimension of blasts. Everything seems to happen statically on the horizontal dimension. D&D 4e is a 2D game...

I want my money and 3.5e back - just redesign melee classes and give monsters more hp and everything is fine!

Here's the PHB quotes (p56):

Close burst [number]: A close burst power allows you to target creatures or objects within the indicated number of squares from you in all directions.

Close blast [number]: A close blast power allows you to target creatures or objects within an adjacent area that is the indicated number of squares on a side.QUOTE]

And again at p272:

Blast: A blast fills an area adjacent to you that is a specified number of squares on a side. For example, the wizard power thunderwave is a blast 3, which means the power affects a 3-square-by-3-square area adjacent to you. The blast must be adjacent to its origin square, which is a square in your space. The origin square is not affected by the blast. A blast affects a target only if the target is in the blast’s area and if there is line of effect from the origin square to the target.
Burst: A burst starts in an origin square and extends in all directions to a specified number of squares from the origin square. For example, the cleric power flame strike is a burst 2 within 10 squares of
you, which means the power originates in a square up to 10 squares away from you and affects the origin square and every square within 2 squares of it (a 5-square-by-5-square area). Unless a power description notes otherwise, a close burst you create does not affect you. However, an area burst you create does affect you. A burst affects a target only if there is line of effect from the burst’s origin square to the target.

Click to expand...

So yes indeed, 4e is very much a 2d game build to be played on computers... *SIGH*

Particle_Man · Jun 22, 2008

According to CustServ, all blasts, bursts, etc. (and I can only assume Wizard's Cloud of Daggers) both hug the ground and extend indefinitely high, so are more like very very long square-based prisms (kinda like cylinders but with corners) than cubes.

My Question:

[sblock=]If my wizard faces a flying creature, can I aim a spell "high" so as to hit the flyer?

If a spell is burst 3, and I can aim high, does that make a one square high by 7 squares long by 7 squares wide prism, or a cube that is 7 squares long on each edge?

Can I, if facing a gargantuan creature in meelee with my allies, aim a spell high enough to hit the gargantuan creature but miss my allies?[/sblock]

Their (ok, Paul's) response:

[sblock=]A flying creature is considered in that space so they will be affected by spells. There is no aiming high, unless your DM wants to create rules for fighting in a 3D environment.[/sblock]

Oompa · Jun 22, 2008

Simply said, you aim, you shoot, you hit everything in an 3x3 square, even if it is 500000 feet up in the air..

Guess im going to include an "You've shot an eagle out of the air" table

rhm001 · Jun 22, 2008

Particle_Man said:
According to CustServ, all blasts, bursts, etc. (and I can only assume Wizard's Cloud of Daggers) both hug the ground and extend indefinitely high, so are more like very very long square-based prisms (kinda like cylinders but with corners) than cubes.

My Question:

[sblock=]If my wizard faces a flying creature, can I aim a spell "high" so as to hit the flyer?

If a spell is burst 3, and I can aim high, does that make a one square high by 7 squares long by 7 squares wide prism, or a cube that is 7 squares long on each edge?

Can I, if facing a gargantuan creature in meelee with my allies, aim a spell high enough to hit the gargantuan creature but miss my allies?[/sblock]

Their (ok, Paul's) response:

[sblock=]A flying creature is considered in that space so they will be affected by spells. There is no aiming high, unless your DM wants to create rules for fighting in a 3D environment.[/sblock]

Interesting. I guess when you call down those powers from deities or higher planes or the Far Realm, you really call them ALL THE WAY down...

James McMurray · Jun 22, 2008

Blasts need clarification, but bursts are pretty clear. They extend one square in all directs. Up and Down are also directions, so bursts should create a cube. Blasts appear to be more like the old burning hands, where they create a sheet or small spray.

Particle_Man said:
According to CustServ, all blasts, bursts, etc. (and I can only assume Wizard's Cloud of Daggers) both hug the ground and extend indefinitely high, so are more like very very long square-based prisms (kinda like cylinders but with corners) than cubes.

My Question:

[sblock=]If my wizard faces a flying creature, can I aim a spell "high" so as to hit the flyer?

If a spell is burst 3, and I can aim high, does that make a one square high by 7 squares long by 7 squares wide prism, or a cube that is 7 squares long on each edge?

Can I, if facing a gargantuan creature in meelee with my allies, aim a spell high enough to hit the gargantuan creature but miss my allies?[/sblock]

Their (ok, Paul's) response:

[sblock=]A flying creature is considered in that space so they will be affected by spells. There is no aiming high, unless your DM wants to create rules for fighting in a 3D environment.[/sblock]

That's ludicrous. There's nothing in the flying rules that would indicate a monster counts as being in the square on the ground even when he's 50 feet up. In fact, the rules on distance for three dimensional combat say the exact opposite.

WotC needs to initiate more random drug testing for their customer service reps.

Danceofmasks · Jun 22, 2008

Seconded ... although they may be ruling that way 'cos that's how D&D Insider is being coded .. in the interests of minimising complexity.
Which also means the reverse is true ... if I'm a wizard in a hot-air baloon, I can thunderwave something on the ground 1000 feet below.

Caliber · Jun 22, 2008

Danceofmasks said:
Seconded ... although they may be ruling that way 'cos that's how D&D Insider is being coded .. in the interests of minimising complexity.
Which also means the reverse is true ... if I'm a wizard in a hot-air baloon, I can thunderwave something on the ground 1000 feet below.

Remember, the DDI Virtual Tabletop doesn't adjudicate rules in any way, so everyone claiming the 4E rules are designed to be implemented by computers for the DDI is incorrect (maybe computer design figured in, but not for the VTT). The VTT is just a table top, it needs a DM to rule how things work (and is thus usable with all editions, and even non-DnD games ...)

Interesting discussion though! I think I'll advocate 3D cubes in my group.

I cast a blast spell, you say: how high?

Herzog

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