Special Conversion Thread: Finishing off the oozes

freyar said:

Making it move equivalent is quite a bit more powerful, but I'm ok with it if it doesn't throw the CR too far off.

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I have no objection to it being a full-round action if the burning zombies are tough enough. One problem with the Ulgustasta's Create Spawn ability is that a handful of skeletons are so inconsequential a threat compared to the Undead Worm itself that if it's in close combat it'd probably be better off using a different attack rather than launching skeletons. That's not a problem if the monster spawns undead minions before combat, but a Carnivorous Wall is designed so that it won't generate burning zombies before its within melee range.

Echohawk said:

Burning zombie (5): AC 7; MV 6; HD 2; hp 48, 44, 36, 32 (x2); THAC019; #AT 1; Dmg 1d4 (bite) + 1d6 (flame damage); SD immune to mind-affecting spells; SZ M (5'-6' tall); ML special (never checks morale); Int non (0); AL N; XP 120.
Note: Burning zombies have the same hit points as the wall that created them, but only attack as 2-hit die monsters. Their heads exude the same flaming liquid as the walls, doing no damage to the zombie but adding 1d6 points of heat damage to their bit attack. These "zombies" are not undead and cannot be turned. A burning zombie that is raised or resurrected requires a week of best rest or a heal or regenerate spell to recover fully.

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Thanks Echohawk, that would definitely make them Constructs rather than Undead. The Hit Points = parent wall is an interesting trait, similar to a familiar's HPs. If we want to keep that we may want to limit their number to one per Wall at any one time. They may be durable but they have crummy attack rolls and damage.

The rest of it is pretty straight forward. Normal Construct immunities will cover the immunity to mind-affecting spells, and a fire damage bonus to a bite attack, but no flaming liquid splash attack mentioned.

Since there are stats for five burning zombies, I guess this means there's a location in the module that contains zombies the Walls have already created. That would imply they can last a long time once spawned, and their head does not run out of flaming liquid in 1d6 rounds like we've got them statted at the moment. As written, a Wall could have legions of these creatures at its beck and call, maybe hiding around the corner of its labyrinth waiting to rush out and help it capture more victims.

Finally, do we want the Wall to be able to make burning zombies out of any living creature or limit them to Small or Medium Humanoids?

Hmmm....since these are constructs, rather than undead, I think we should alter the text from "any creature killed while engulfed by a carnivorous wall is immediately transformed into a burning zombie" to something like "for each creature slain, the carnivous wall may create a burning zombie".

I think I'd rather keep with multiple zombies per wall, rather than a "familiar"-like single zombie.

Shade said:

Hmmm....since these are constructs, rather than undead, I think we should alter the text from "any creature killed while engulfed by a carnivorous wall is immediately transformed into a burning zombie" to something like "for each creature slain, the carnivous wall may create a burning zombie".

I think I'd rather keep with multiple zombies per wall, rather than a "familiar"-like single zombie.

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Yes, that's my preference too, so long such zombies just add the normal Construct Bonus Hit Points rather than have HPs equal to their creator wall like the original version. Having each wall aided by a bunch of 100 HP zombies would increase their threat considerably.

Now, do burning zombies inside a Carnivorous Wall count against the monster's Engulf limit? I'd assume they would, so a wall with two Medium zombies inside it would have to eject one or both of them to make room to swallow a victim. That's another reason I'd like it to be a move-equivalent action, since that allows a Wall to perform both actions in the same round.

Also, should we make some statement about how long these Burning Zombies last. Do they 'burn out' after a few weeks of pseudo-life, like Myconid or Yellow Musk Zombies, or can they keep going nigh indefinitely until destroyed, like regular Constructs?

Let's make them normal constructs: normal hp, normal lifetime. In terms of how many critters fit, sure, let's change how many are inside already.

How about this for their stats, adapted from a regular zombie.

CREATING A BURNING ZOMBIE

“Burning Zombie” is an acquired template that can be added to any corporeal creature (other than an undead) that has a skeletal system (referred to hereafter as the base creature).
Size and Type: The creature’s type changes to construct. It retains any subtypes except alignment subtypes and subtypes that indicate kind. It does not gain the augmented subtype. It uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
Hit Dice: Drop any Hit Dice from class levels (to a minimum of 1) and raise them to d10s, adding bonus Hit Dice according to the following table, unless the base creature has less than one Hit Dice, in which case the burning zombies' Hit Die is double the base creatures. Being a Construct, a burning zombie is hard to destroy and gains bonus hit points as shown in the table.


Speed: A burning zombie loses all magical forms of movement (such as an Ogre Magi's flight) and all its remaining movement rates are reduced to 3/4 what they were in life. If the base creature can fly, its maneuverability rating drops to clumsy.
Armor Class: A burning zombie's body is toughened by dehydration, its natural armor bonus increases by a number based on the monster’s size:
Base Attack: A burning zombie has a base attack bonus equal to 3/4 its Hit Dice.
Attacks: A burning zombie retains all the natural weapons, manufactured weapon attacks, and weapon proficiencies of the base creature. A burning zombie also gains a bite attack, which becomes the burning zombies primary attack.
Damage: Natural and manufactured weapons deal damage normally. A bite attack deals damage depending on the zombie’s size (Use the base creature’s bite damage if it’s better), with additional fire damage from the Flaming Bite special attack - see below.
Special Attacks: A burning zombie retains none of the base creature’s special attacks but gains a Flaming Bite attack.
Flaming Bite (Ex): - a burning zombies' head exudes flaming liquid, its bite attack does bonus fire damage as shown in the above damage table.
Special Qualities: A zombie loses most special qualities of the base creature. It retains any extraordinary special qualities that improve its melee or ranged attacks. A zombie gains the following special quality.
Damage reduction 5/slashing
A burning zombie possesses all the traits of the Construct type except as follows:

Corpse Construct: Resurrection and true resurrection can affect a burning zombie. These spells turn the burning zombie back into the living creatures they were before becoming constructs. A burning zombie is not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities unless it is first destroyed, whereupon the spells affect the remains as if they were a normal corpse which died when the base creature had been killed to create the burning zombie. A burning zombie that is raised or resurrected requires a week of best rest or a heal or regenerate spell to recover fully.

Saves: Base save bonuses are Fort +1/3 HD, Ref +1/3 HD, and Will +1/3 HD.
Abilities: A burning zombie’s Strength increases by +2, its Dexterity decreases by 2, it has no Constitution or Intelligence score, its Wisdom changes to 10, and its Charisma changes to 1.
Skills: A burning zombie is mindless and has no skills.
Feats: A burning zombie loses all feats of the base creature and gains Toughness.
Environment: Any land and underground.
Organization: Any.
Challenge Rating: Depends on Hit Dice, as follows: [I've bumped it up from a regular zombie since it doesn't have the "single action only" quality and gains slightly better AC and a flaming bite]
Treasure: None, although the carnivorous wall that created it may have some.
Alignment: Always neutral.
Advancement: As base creature, but double Hit Dice (maximum 20), or—if the base creature advances by character class.
Level Adjustment:—.

Sample Burning Zombies
A corpse shambles towards you, its jaws snapping as burning slime drips from its mouth and eye sockets.


Human Commoner Burning Zombie
Type: Medium Construct
Hit Dice: 2d10+23 (34 hp)
Initiative: –1 (Dex)
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
AC: 13 (–1 Dex, +4 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 13)
Base Attack / Grapple: +1/+2
Attack: Bite +2 melee (1d6+1+1d6 fire) or club +2 melee (1d6+1)
Full Attack: Bite +2 melee (1d6+1+1d6 fire) and club -3 melee (1d6)
Face/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft
Special Attacks: Flaming Bite
Special Qualities: damage reduction 5/slashing, darkvision 60 ft., construct traits
Saves: Fort +0, Ref –1, Will +0
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 8, Con—, Int—, Wis 10, Cha 1
Feats: Toughness
Skills: —
Environment: Any land or underground
Challenge Rating: 1
Alignment: Always neutral


Rat Burning Zombie
Type: Tiny Construct
Hit Dice: 1/2 d10+3 (5 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 10 ft., climb 10 ft., swim 10 ft. (2 squares)
Armor Class: 14 (+2 size, +1 Dex, +1 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/–11
Attack: Bite -1 melee (1d3-3 and 1d4 fire)
Full Attack: Bite -1 melee (1d3-3 and 1d4 fire)
Space/Reach: 2-1/5 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Flaming bite
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/slashing, darkvision 60 ft., construct traits
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +1, Will +0
Abilities: Str 4, Dex 13, Con—, Int—, Wis 10, Cha 1
Feats: Toughness
Skills: —
Environment: Any land or underground
Challenge Rating: 1/4
Alignment: Always neutral


Kobold Burning Zombie
Type: Small Construct
Hit Dice: 2d10+13 (24 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 14 (+1 size, +3 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/–4
Attack: Bite +1 melee (1d4–1+1d6 fire) or spear +1 melee (1d6–1/×3) or light crossbow +1 ranged (1d6/19–20)
Full Attack: Bite +1 melee (1d4–1+1d6 fire) and spear -4 melee (1d6–1/×3) or light crossbow +1 ranged (1d6/19–20)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Flaming bite
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/slashing, darkvision 60 ft., construct traits
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +0, Will +0
Abilities: Str 8, Dex 11, Con—, Int—, Wis 10, Cha 1
Feats: Toughness
Skills: —
Environment: Any land or underground
Challenge Rating: 1
Alignment: Always neutral


Troglodyte Burning Zombie
Type: Medium Construct
Hit Dice: 3d10+23 (39 hp)
Initiative: –2
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 18 (–2 Dex, +10 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+3
Attack: Bite +3 melee (1d6+1+1d6 fire) or greatclub +3 melee (1d10+1) or javelin +0 ranged (1d6+1)
Full Attack: Bite +3 melee (1d6+1+1d6 fire) and greatclub -2 melee (1d10) or javelin +0 ranged (1d6+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft
Special Attacks: Flaming bite
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/slashing, darkvision 60 ft., construct traits
Saves: Fort +1, Ref –1, Will +1
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 7, Con—, Int—, Wis 10, Cha 1
Feats: Toughness
Skills: —
Environment: Any land or underground
Challenge Rating: 1
Alignment: Always neutral


Bugbear Burning Zombie
Type: Medium Construct
Hit Dice: 4d10+23 (45 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 18 (+7 natural, +1 light wooden shield), touch 10, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+6
Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d6+3+1d6 fire) or morningstar +6 melee (1d8+3) or javelin +3 ranged (1d6+3)
Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d6+3+1d6 fire) and morningstar +1 melee (1d8+1) or javelin +3 ranged (1d6+3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Flaming bite
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/slashing, darkvision 60 ft., construct traits
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +1
Abilities: Str 17, Dex 10, Con—, Int—, Wis 10, Cha 1
Feats: Toughness
Skills: —
Environment: Any land or underground
Challenge Rating: 2
Alignment: Always neutral


Worg Burning Zombie
Type: Medium Construct
Hit Dice: 5d10+23 (50 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 35 ft. (7 squares)
Armor Class: 17 (+1 Dex, +6 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+7
Attack: Bite +7 melee (1d6+6+1d6 fire)
Full Attack: Bite +7 melee (1d6+6+1d6 fire)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Flaming bite
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/slashing, darkvision 60 ft., construct traits
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +2, Will +1
Abilities: Str 19, Dex 12, Con—, Int—, Wis 10, Cha 1
Feats: Toughness
Skills: —
Environment: Any land or underground
Challenge Rating: 2
Alignment: Always neutral


Harpy Burning Zombie
Type: Medium Construct
Hit Dice: 8d10+23 (67 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 15 ft. (3 squares), fly 60 ft. (clumsy)(12 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (+1 Dex, +5 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+7
Attack: Bite +7 melee (1d6+1+1d6 fire) or club +7 melee (1d6+1)
Full Attack: Bite +7 melee (1d6+1+1d6 fire) and club +2 melee (1d6) and 2 claws +2 melee (1d3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Flaming bite
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/slashing, darkvision 60 ft., construct traits
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +2
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 13, Con —, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 1
Feats: Toughness
Skills: —
Environment: Any land or underground
Challenge Rating: 3
Alignment: Always neutral

Shade said:

BigMac, you might want to pop back in the giants thread (Spelljammer alert!).

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Thanks for that.

freyar said:

Hmm, I think I like the idea of the faces covering it as being a flavor thing, rather than an ability per se. We can mention that they are the remnants of skin ripped off during the formation of a burning zombie. The trash compactor idea I like.

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I was thinking of a flavor thing rather than an ability. I think that anything that happens during combat should be an ability and anything that takes days, weeks or months doesn't happen in front of PCs so can usually be flavor text. The treasure of this wall could include fingers that still have rings on them and ears that still have ear-rings in them.

I like the idea of the skin being ripped off of burning zombies. I now see them as being flaming flesh with no skin.

Given that buring zombies are on fire, I think that they should only last a finite amount of time before the fire consumes their flesh or the fuel from the wall runs out. (I'm not suggesting this time would only be a few rounds, but if these things lasted forever a wall could build up its own army.)

I like the idea of a burning zombie being a construct. If it needs a template, shouldn't we look at the flesh golem for inspiration?

Big Mac said:

Given that buring zombies are on fire, I think that they should only last a finite amount of time before the fire consumes their flesh or the fuel from the wall runs out. (I'm not suggesting this time would only be a few rounds, but if these things lasted forever a wall could build up its own army.)

I like the idea of a burning zombie being a construct. If it needs a template, shouldn't we look at the flesh golem for inspiration?

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I think we're already agreed on it being a Construct, since the original stats specify it's not an Undead. Shade's said he prefer they don't last for a finite time but I'd like them to 'burn out' in a few weeks or months.

Now I'm wondering whether I should add a bit of fire resistance or an immunity to the "flaming liquid" of burning zombies and carnivorous walls, in order to explain why burning zombies aren't quickly consumed by their own flaming heads.

Why don't we give the burning zombies fire immunity?

Also, why not keep the single action quality from the regular zombie?

Cleon said:

I think we're already agreed on it being a Construct, since the original stats specify it's not an Undead.

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I was actually agreeing with your idea.

Cleon said:

Shade's said he prefer they don't last for a finite time but I'd like them to 'burn out' in a few weeks or months.

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I don't especially mind if they never "burn out". I just think that, as they are not elementals, they shouldn't burn forever.

Cleon said:

Now I'm wondering whether I should add a bit of fire resistance or an immunity to the "flaming liquid" of burning zombies and carnivorous walls, in order to explain why burning zombies aren't quickly consumed by their own flaming heads.

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...and...

freyar said:

Why don't we give the burning zombies fire immunity?

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Fire immunity would probably work.

But the burning fluid of the Carnivorous Wall can not last forever. Either these things stop burning after 1 week, 1 month or whatever or they carry on burning, but burn up their bodies as a fuel source.

As I said, they are not elementals.

Big Mac said:

But the burning fluid of the Carnivorous Wall can not last forever. Either these things stop burning after 1 week, 1 month or whatever or they carry on burning, but burn up their bodies as a fuel source.

As I said, they are not elementals.

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As constructs, though, they can have magical properties. So can't they keep the fire damage in their bites? The other thing is that the burning fluid only burns in contact with air, so perhaps they only use a negligible amount with each bite and have effectively an unlimited supply (they can also replenish from the carnivorous wall, if necessary).