Help! A player wants to play "Captain America"

SSquirrel

Explorer
What's next? "I will play, but only if I can play a top-hat from Monopoly!"

I wasn't in attendance at the game, but when I was in college a friend of mine ran an off-beat (and then some) Star Wars d6 game. One evening a friend of mine apparently successfully roleplayed a force-sensitive lamp.

Captain America is a peak physical condition human w/no crazy super powers, just strong, athletic and he has a super nasty shield. Put a few molded spikes on the glove and make it a d6 w/+2 proficiency. If you want him to be able to use the shield as both a defensive tool as well as a weapon, just use the basic Magic Weapon category in the magic items section, then bump things up a level. It isn't the biggest shield so it should probably be a Light Shield. I wouldn't have a problem w/a L2 item that does 1d8 when you bash with it and have it add 1 to AC.

Then again, I loved the 4 Color to Fantasy book EN Pub did ;)
 

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yu gnomi

Explorer
Rechan

Please post again if & when you finalize this deal with the player, and let us know how it developed. I am earnestly curious to find out if Captain America is going to take up a new career mugging monsters for their treasure.


P.S. One last suggestion. If Cap is a re-skinned melee class- Fighter, Paladin or Warlord, I think he should have an Encounter power "Throw Shield" (which maybe operates as a modified Sacred Flame or Lance of Faith) in place of a class feature. Those classes have few or no ranged powers, and I think Cap should have at least one good shield throw per encounter.
 

Rechan

Adventurer
Thanks, to those who responded helpfully. I appreciate it!

Please post again if & when you finalize this deal with the player, and let us know how it developed. I am earnestly curious to find out if Captain America is going to take up a new career mugging monsters for their treasure.
Sure.

P.S. One last suggestion. If Cap is a re-skinned melee class- Fighter, Paladin or Warlord, I think he should have an Encounter power "Throw Shield" (which maybe operates as a modified Sacred Flame or Lance of Faith) in place of a class feature. Those classes have few or no ranged powers, and I think Cap should have at least one good shield throw per encounter.
A basic ranged attack could function, but true, the melee guys don't have any ranged Powers.
 

fba827

Adventurer
Question to Rechan -- Did the player at any time say "Captain America" ? Or did he use the words you presented in quotes?

In either case, I'd recommend never to refer to him as Captain America again. It will kill the flavor and tone of your campaign setting. Hence forth, it is a Shield Warrior ;)
Lead by example, if a player uses the term Captain America, gloss over it (don't call attention to it) and just keep using Shield Warrior (or whatever you want).


As to how to implemet it, I'd just take the Fighter Class and just tweak it ..

Note: What follows is somewhere between house-rules and simple reflavoring. You'll find every "new power" listed is actually just taking an existing power and changing the flavor and tone, and then changing one or two things (like keywords to reflect martial melee, etc)

Shield Warrior

Same as Fighter except where as noted.

Remove:
* Fighter Weapon Talent

Gain:

* Shield Talent: You may use your shield as a melee weapon. Gaining a +2 proficiency bonus when attacking with the shield. You do not gain your shield's bonus to defenses when using it as a weapon. Light shields do 1d6+ Str modifier damage, Heavy Shields do 1d8+Str modifier damage. (The first sentence here is really the only "new " class feature - ability to use a shield as a weapon. The rest is just a proficiency bonus when attacking (all weapons get one) and also the damage from improvised weapon rules.

* Shield Bash: The shield weapon counts as a mace or hammer or the purpose of any fighter attack power that has special effects from using a mace or hammer type weapon. (this goes a long way in reflavoring existing fighter powers to work for a shield. since the shield will mostly be bludgeoning people, the mace and hammer are the closest match)


Suggested At Will: Tide of Iron, Shield Toss (new power, see below)
Suggested Feats: Shield Push, Two-Weapon Fighting feats (if want to use the shield in one hand and punch with the other)

New Level 1 At-Wills

Shield Toss Shield Warrior Attack 1
With a fling, you toss your shield in a boomerang like motion, often causing a moment of forced mistep by the enemy allowing allies to strike truer
At_Will * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Ranged 5
Special: You must be wielding a light shield to use this power
Target: One creature
Attack: Dex vs AC
Hit: 1[W]+Str modifier, and one ally you can see gains a +2 power bonus to his next attack roll against the target.
Increase damage to 2d[W]+Str modifier at 21st level


New Level 5 Daily

Shield Throw Shield Warrior Attack 5
With great force, you throw and spin your shield at odd angles, causing it to bounce off opponents and then return to you.
Daily * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Ranged 10
Special: You must be wielding a light shield to use this power
Target: One creature
Attack: Dex vs AC
Hit: 2d[W] + Str modifier
Effect: You throw your shield and all your allies gain combat advantage against the target. You can move the weapon up to 10 squares to another enemy's square as a move action. The weapon lasts until the end of your next turn before returning to you. While this power is active, you do not gain your shield's bonus to AC or Reflex. You must have line of effect to your shield at all times or else this power ends immediately.
Sustain Minor: When you sustain the power, repeat the attack. Your allies continue to gain combat advantage against the weapon's target.



that should go a long way to change the flavor.

Note that this does creep on multiple attribute dependancy>
Str for damage
Dex for thrown shield attacks
Con for the bonus on shield bash (since all the mace and hammer attack bonuses are con dependant)
wis if combat supriority comes up a lot
 

BartD

First Post
I don't think the original idea was to be able to attack with the shield in melee, just to be able to throw it. So: A melee attack, thrown attack, and defense from using a shield.
By the rules that is what you get by wielding a thrown melee weapon and a shield. So balance-wise there is no problem at all, it's just a question of flavoring the thrown attack as using the shield instead of the hammer or whatever. The numbers are identical, it's 100% flavor difference.

Now, if a throwing hammer and a light shield seem like too little (attack +2, damage d6, AC +1) it will probably be fine to improve it somewhat, say damage d10 like a warhammer.

Class-wise, I can imagine the concept almost any class (warlock and wizard not so much) with a little reflavoring and possibly multiclassing for a couple of ranged powers. But I don't think many rules need to be changed.

Afterthought: In 3e I would never have thought of allowing "reflavouring" like this, but it just "feels" like the thing to do in 4e.
 

Arakim

First Post
Wow. I'm always a bit surprised by the emotional responses to a question, especially negative ones.

The guy has a favorite hero. He wants to play him. That's character motivation and a good Role-Playing base.

2 guys in Marvel come to mind as being Fantasy-Capable. One is Thor, and the other is Cap.

Not allot of power-armor guys running around with a shield.

The more I think about it the more I like the Melee Cleric idea. His Implement is his shield (bonuses won't add to AC). Ranged powers are Shield Slinging, Melee powers are a combination, and you don't really have to change any rules around. Just Shield for Implement, and a weapon of choice to be his fist attack. "That guy punches like a hammer!"

It is a hammer.

Warlock that shoots his Eldritch Blast from his eyes - Cyclops.
Dwarven Ranger that multiclasses to fighter for Regeneration - Wolverine.
Iron Man - Iron mage (it's on this forum somewhere, and pretty cool).

Super Heroes are just the mythology of the day, people. Some alien nerd five thousand years from now is going to think we worshiped a guy in blue tights with an, "S," on his chest, and he had a Pantheon of Justice (tm).
 

Asmor

First Post
Give his shield the Heavy Thrown property. As soon as it's upgraded a magical shield, he'll be happy as a pig in... stuff. (Magical thrown weapons automatically return to the thrower immediately after the attack is resolved).

Give him a "leather gauntlet" that uses the stats of, and can be enchanted like, a mace of some variety. Maybe force him to pick up a feat to use it, since he doesn't have to worry about drawing it.

Done.
 

Danzauker

Adventurer
I was planning to runa a Captain america like character at the first occasion.

My vision of Cap is completely envisioned by the words of Frank Miller in Daredevil: Reborn.

Paraphrafased: "He has the voice that could give orders to a god. And he does".

That screams Warlord, IMHO.

I don't care much for the returning shield thingie. I'll be content with a sword and board type of melee combatant, or maybe mace and shield.

It could be nice to devise a Shield Thrower PP maybe. After all, Cap has high heroic or low paragon levels of fighting expertise on top of high stats for a human, so I don't expect to have a low level character doing all the stunts he does in comics at first level.
 

Andor

First Post
If he takes the 'Two-weapon fighting' feat then any throwing weapon in his off hand works exactly like a light shield. So take the stats of the heavy thrown weapon of your choice and say it looks like a shield. Call it a Targé-Chakram or something.

So that takes care of his off-hand. For his primary either let him swap his Martial weapon prof for hurty fists ala the wotc article, or reskin a Scimitar as a glove. (Not a long sword 'cause his fist ain't versatile.)
 

N0Man

First Post
Yes, the sense of player entitlement by some people is pretty amazing. It has even slipped into the 4E DMG with "ask your players what magic items they want and then give them to them". I'm all for making the game fun, but I'm also for having players earn what they acquire and sometimes, things shouldn't work out exactly how the players envision it should. :erm:

If there's one thing worse than players with an excessive sense of entitlement, it is an arrogant and full-of-himself DM that believes that his creative vision or interpretation of a world or the game is so important that he imposes his will and vision on all of the players, even if it as a detriment to their fun.

D&D is a cooperative game. DMs shouldn't be trying to tie the hands of their players, especially over minor and unimportant things, if it infringes on the fun of the group as a whole, and likewise, players need to be willing to cooperate and keep their characters in line with the style and feel that the group as a whole finds fun and rewarding.

It's a balancing act, and BOTH players and DMs sometimes need to compromise for the good of the game.
 

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