cinderember
First Post
Ok, I am sure you heard it all before. However, I have to vent a bit, so bear with me, and you can flame me or tell me I'm too negative or an idiot, or what-have-you, as most often do.[/FONT
I have been HONESTLY trying to be positive about 4E. I got the books, and have been trying very hard to work with them. Initially there were a lot of things that put me off after reading them. I especially did not like the shameless plugs for things here and there, especially the RPGA, which makes me feel like the only official D&D is RPGA run D&D according to WotC. I guess that is fine, though I feel it alienates those of us who don't particularly like RPGA events.
Secondly, it feels like someone took the PHB, DMG, and MM and ripped them in half, and weakly filled in the missing halves with filler that is both unfamiliar and not particularly creative. Then, we are offered the missing halves in book sequels, which will undoubtedly be ripped in half again, and so on. At this rate, I will have to wait several years before I can piece together some semblance of a complete or familiar game.
Ok, I like some things. I like the stream-lined-ness and ease of play. I like the organization. I like the mechanics, for the most part. I think they did well with the core mechanics.
The art is bloody awful in some parts. I have done better in photoshop myself, and I suck (see my art in Mystic Eye Games supplements, and you may agree). The non-uniformedness of the style and quality makes for really shoddy work. The layout is equally slapdash, with page numbers often drifting off the page entirely.
Also, a few rules make no sense to me, and seem to defeat the purpose of simplicity and common sense. Why not just call all powers “POWERS”….why change the name of the power for each class. It is clunky and confusing. And I do not understand the weapon size thing…why can small creatures use medium weapons in some fashion, but medium creatures can’t use large weapons at all? It makes little sense, and seems to contradict itself. There are many other instances of this bizarre stuff that seems to run contrary to the core 4E mechanic, which is actually not too bad.
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I was willing to overlook all of this. I was willing to say “Oh well, no system is perfect, and this is the future of D&D, and I want to support it.”[/COLOR]
[/COLOR]
Sure, I was daunted by the OGL snafu, and the loss of publishing support from nearly all 3rd party publishers. I pressed on. Less to buy isn’t too bad, I can manage.[/COLOR]
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Then I downed the 22 page errata, and realized my books are basically trash. It’s been out 3 months and has a 22 page errata???? I know that 3E wasn’t much better, but this was supposed to be an improvement. And these aren’t little errors, either. I can’t have people in my game cross-referencing a pile of papers trying to figure out what basic things like Jump or Stealth do. It is pretty much the final straw. So they lost another dungeon master/player. I cannot use this game as it is. As much as I abhor Paizo (for personally treating me quite terribly on a customer service issue), I think I’ll just have to suck it up and invest in Pathfinder. *Shiver* I hate the name Pathfinder…reminds me of that awful Viking movie….but such is life. So ends 30 years of loyalty to D&D. It is a sad day. [/COLOR]
[/COLOR]is life. So ends 30 years of loyalty to D&D. It is a sad day.
Please leave the colored text for moderator posts, thanks.
Dinkeldog/Moderator
I have been HONESTLY trying to be positive about 4E. I got the books, and have been trying very hard to work with them. Initially there were a lot of things that put me off after reading them. I especially did not like the shameless plugs for things here and there, especially the RPGA, which makes me feel like the only official D&D is RPGA run D&D according to WotC. I guess that is fine, though I feel it alienates those of us who don't particularly like RPGA events.
Secondly, it feels like someone took the PHB, DMG, and MM and ripped them in half, and weakly filled in the missing halves with filler that is both unfamiliar and not particularly creative. Then, we are offered the missing halves in book sequels, which will undoubtedly be ripped in half again, and so on. At this rate, I will have to wait several years before I can piece together some semblance of a complete or familiar game.
Ok, I like some things. I like the stream-lined-ness and ease of play. I like the organization. I like the mechanics, for the most part. I think they did well with the core mechanics.
The art is bloody awful in some parts. I have done better in photoshop myself, and I suck (see my art in Mystic Eye Games supplements, and you may agree). The non-uniformedness of the style and quality makes for really shoddy work. The layout is equally slapdash, with page numbers often drifting off the page entirely.
Also, a few rules make no sense to me, and seem to defeat the purpose of simplicity and common sense. Why not just call all powers “POWERS”….why change the name of the power for each class. It is clunky and confusing. And I do not understand the weapon size thing…why can small creatures use medium weapons in some fashion, but medium creatures can’t use large weapons at all? It makes little sense, and seems to contradict itself. There are many other instances of this bizarre stuff that seems to run contrary to the core 4E mechanic, which is actually not too bad.
[/COLOR]
I was willing to overlook all of this. I was willing to say “Oh well, no system is perfect, and this is the future of D&D, and I want to support it.”[/COLOR]
[/COLOR]
Sure, I was daunted by the OGL snafu, and the loss of publishing support from nearly all 3rd party publishers. I pressed on. Less to buy isn’t too bad, I can manage.[/COLOR]
[/COLOR]
Then I downed the 22 page errata, and realized my books are basically trash. It’s been out 3 months and has a 22 page errata???? I know that 3E wasn’t much better, but this was supposed to be an improvement. And these aren’t little errors, either. I can’t have people in my game cross-referencing a pile of papers trying to figure out what basic things like Jump or Stealth do. It is pretty much the final straw. So they lost another dungeon master/player. I cannot use this game as it is. As much as I abhor Paizo (for personally treating me quite terribly on a customer service issue), I think I’ll just have to suck it up and invest in Pathfinder. *Shiver* I hate the name Pathfinder…reminds me of that awful Viking movie….but such is life. So ends 30 years of loyalty to D&D. It is a sad day. [/COLOR]
[/COLOR]is life. So ends 30 years of loyalty to D&D. It is a sad day.
Please leave the colored text for moderator posts, thanks.
Dinkeldog/Moderator
Last edited by a moderator:
