Pace of level advancement in 4th edition D&D

Sytonis · Feb 10, 2009

catsclaw227 said:
Judging by the XP and the time it is taking to to through our new Scales of War game, as well as the time it took to go from 11th to 15th in my converted Age of Worms game, it's looking like it will come out to about A Tier a Year(tm).

A three year campaign that ends in a grand epic climax sounds about right to me.

I think I'd be inclined to double this. So all three tiers would take six years. Whether this would be 2 years per tier or Heroic 1 Year, Paragon 2 Years, Epic 3 years, I couldn't say at this point.

Does anyone have any comments on 2 years per tier as opposed to 1 / 2 / 3 years approach?

Warren · Feb 10, 2009

Sytonis said:
I think I'd be inclined to double this. So all three tiers would take six years. Whether this would be 2 years per tier or Heroic 1 Year, Paragon 2 Years, Epic 3 years, I couldn't say at this point.

Does anyone have any comments on 2 years per tier as opposed to 1 / 2 / 3 years approach?

6 years? Are you talking game time? We'll all be playing 6th edition when your PCs make it to 27th level.

77IM · Feb 10, 2009

I don't think I've ever been in a campaign that lasted 2 whole years. Talking to other people, I get the impression that campaigns lasting 2+ years are kind of rare -- most people have had one or two, but then had many more shorter campaigns. Most people will say stuff like "I was in an awesome campaign that lasted all 4 years of college" or "my favorite 3e campaign went for 5 straight years" -- but then they will go on to say that most of their campaigns were a lot shorter, like a few months to a year.

Here are some links:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/128451-whats-typical-campaign-length.html
Steve Jackson Games Forums - What's your average session length? Campaign length?

-- 77IM

Jhaelen · Feb 11, 2009

77IM said:
I don't think I've ever been in a campaign that lasted 2 whole years.

My current (3E) campaign is in its fifth year now and the effective party level is 12!
Of course, on average we only meet once a month...

Previous campaigns lasted from 2-4 years, IIRC.

If/when I start a 4E campaign I'll definitely ignore XP and just let the characters level when I feel it's appropriate. We'll see how long that's going to last.

evilbob · Feb 11, 2009

One level per 10 hours seems pretty close: that's like one level per 3 sessions or so when you play for 3-4 hrs per session. And that feels about right (to me, anyway). That gets you, what... 10 levels over 7 months if you play every week? Something like that?

I can say that neither the game I play in nor the game I run has 10 encounters per level - in fact, it's MUCH lower, and frankly if I had to wait 10 encounters for each level I'd probably die of boredom.

That's forever, given that combat encounters tend to take like a million hours. Seriously, even if quest rewards and skill challenges make up a decent amount of your XP, combat encounters for us tend to take at least 2-3 hours on average, and having to wade through even 5 or 6 of those per level would mean you'd never level up because you'd die of old age.

Overall, I think enemies give slightly lower XP than I'd prefer but the generous quest/skill XP makes up for it. The advancement rate seems to be good out of the box, but as many have said you can always change it up if you're not happy.

Sytonis · Feb 11, 2009

Warren said:
6 years? Are you talking game time? We'll all be playing 6th edition when your PCs make it to 27th level.

Real world time, not in game time. The current campaign has lasted 6 years and is due to end "soon". Previous campaigns have typically lasted 3-4 years. I can only think of two aborted campaigns that didn't go beyond 3 years - "The Princess Ark" and "Everyone is a Humanoid". They just didn't fit the group.

See the link below post 30 on how much time should pass in game, which I am still seeking comments on:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/249400-20-levels-3-months-not-time-2.html

Still seeking views on 1 / 2 / 3 year tier approach versus 2 / 2 / 2.

Sytonis

Nail · Feb 11, 2009

Bran Mak Morn said:
...given the limited time of playing for my group (one time a week)...

Ha! ROTFL!

"Limited".

(He thinks gaming once per week is limited. :lol:

)

Obviously YMMV, eh?

signed,

- a grognard who plays twice per month with a gaming group for 3.5 hours at a time, ...if he's lucky and schedules don't conflict and no one's late.

Nail · Feb 11, 2009

77IM said:
I don't think I've ever been in a campaign that lasted 2 whole years. Talking to other people, I get the impression that campaigns lasting 2+ years are kind of rare --

FWIW, my campaigns tend to run about 2 years. The reasons for ending the campaigns are many -- but all include some measure of "Real Life Issues". I'm officially jealous of any gaming group (out of high school or college) that can last mosre than a few years with exactly the same members.

evilbob said:
.... given that combat encounters tend to take like a million hours...

Amen, brother!

I've yet to be in a 4e combat that didn't take 2 hours play-time. (Who's getting these things done in less than that? Have you actually timed it, or are you just estimating?)

Rel · Feb 11, 2009

Nail said:
I've yet to be in a 4e combat that didn't take 2 hours play-time. (Who's getting these things done in less than that? Have you actually timed it, or are you just estimating?)

Monday night I ran a session that lasted from 7:30-11:30 and we had 4 combat encounters plus some exploration/roleplay stuff added in.

Quickleaf · Feb 12, 2009

Bran Mak Morn said:
Hi,

I find the pace of advancement a little too fast.

Let me explain briefly. It is not as matter of PCs gaining too much power in short time but a matter of story development. Let's take the first two published adventures, KOTS and TL. PCs may take 1 week (in game's time) to explore the Keep and complete any missions therein. TL may take a little longer, but no more than 2 weeks exploring the labirinth. After that, PCs are already 7th heroes. They're close to become Paragons. In the Paragon tier this appear to be much more evident. I compare the Paragon tier to the Companion levels of basic D&D. PCs are great heroes known in civilized lands, at least in they're home regions. Let's take the figher, he may become a little leader of a small barony at 11th and then end at 20th as the legitimate ruler of a kingdom (by way of example). Can a DM properly handle such a PC's history in 10 levels? It's three adventures the size and complexity of KOTS. I think it's a too short time to develop a viable story.

A simple change in DMing style can fix this, putting time in between adventures/levels. For example, after reaching 3rd level in a week or so, the PCs spend a month traveling to a distant city to consult with an oracle (skill challenge for access to a high level ritual), but while there they're falsely accused of killing the oracle and are imprisoned (for 1 month) or must flee among elven bandits. I'm actually working on a homebrew "season turns" which accounts for PC action between adventures without taking up much game time.

Pace of level advancement in 4th edition D&D

Sytonis

First Post

Warren

First Post

77IM

Explorer!!!

Jhaelen

First Post

evilbob

Explorer

Sytonis

First Post

Nail

First Post

Nail

First Post

Rel

Liquid Awesome

Quickleaf

Legend

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