Why Calculated XP is Important

Only if your legacy is of more recent vintage! The older system is essentially based on securing treasure.

This is an oft overlooked but very important distinction, and part of my original premise in that what one the system (or the DM) awards XP for will have a motivating impact on play. And, in fact, will define what is being called "player skill" to a large degree.

In 1E, most of your XP came from treasure acquired (aside: which was also quickly unacquired, with upkeep and training costs and keeping henchmenr and all that). Monsters, by and large, weren't worth much and therefore even if you only got XP for defeating them (as opposed to evading them or whatever) it still wasn't a big loss. Creating a distraction so the ogres would all go rushing down the hall so you could loot their lair was a perfectly viable strategy. In many cases, however, the creatures with the greatest potential reward -- the best treasure types -- were also the toughest and least likely to be tricked or sidestepped. On top of it all, some truly dangerous monsters didn't offer much treasure at all, and these became even more frightening to the PCs because there was risk with little reward. Beware the random encounter! Traps didn't give XP in and of themselves -- it was what was in the chest that was valuable. So, in 1E, "player skill" could be said to include techniques used to avoid encounters entirely and still get to the loot.
 

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Yes. To facilitate this, we tend to end every game session with the party recovering in town or whichever base of operations they are using. This makes it plausible for characters to leave or new characters to join them.
Which is nice if you can arrange it; I assume that means your party never stays in the field longer than one session's worth of play would allow? (if your sessions are very long, this is possible) In my case, a one-session adventure is extremely rare; my lot can spend an entire session just getting in the castle's front door! Most of the time, they end (and thus, start) the sessions in mid-dungeon. Occasionally, they end in mid-combat, if it looks like it'll otherwise take till 5 a.m. to resolve.
The characters are assumed to be doing something "off-camera" that allows them to gain a level. They may be pursuing personal quests or be involved in other adventures.
I'm completeist enough as both DM and player to insist on knowing what those quests or adventures are, and how they relate to the grander scheme of things. (I do this with long-term retired characters that are coming back; we call it "mini-dungeoning", and it consists mostly of some high-level dice rolls to see what transpired in the meantime and-or whether they survived)
Presumably, if a PC was killed in the last game session, and the player brings in a new character at higher than 1st level, you don't run a solo campaign for the new character to enable him to earn the necessary XP?
Usually not, though I would if asked.
Now that you mention it, I think that the key disagreement seems to be between those who think that RPGs are important enough that the wheat needs to be separated from the chaff, and those who do not.
Unless you want all the characters to end up roughly the same (and thus contrive to have them do so) despite their different levels of involvement, then yes - be it by wealth, or level, or whatever - the wheat will separate from the chaff. It's called, I think, natural selection.

Oh, and to combine two posts into one:

Experience points are a reward for what the *character* does. Whether a player was involved or not should make no difference, if the game world's internal consistency is to have any chance at all.

Lanefan
 

Experience points are a reward for what the *character* does. Whether a player was involved or not should make no difference, if the game world's internal consistency is to have any chance at all.
But that begs the question of whether a player-character can do anything XP-worthy "in the world" without a player. If a character falls in the forest and there's no one to hear it ...

What if a player shows up with Bigby, Tenser or Robilar?

Seems to me that showing up to play matters in a way that reaping the benefits of someone else's play does not. Moreover, the aspect of internal consistency that's likely to stand out most is reaping the negative consequences of someone else's play.

"Welcome back, Mike! You know that character you took three years to get to level whatever? Yeah, well, in that session you missed, he got disintegrated."

I have lost at least one character that way -- but not one I had played for so long! I have also heard of people wanting their characters to participate in critical events when the players could not be present, including an epic battle that had characters mailed in from campaigns all over the country.

As an exceptional expedient, I can dig that. I would not make it a common practice, though.

For really thorough in-world consistency, should one not assume that player-characters are always adventuring, whether any player is "watching" them? If any game-time passes between sessions, they're Schrödinger's cat. Roll on some sort of table:

"Cool beans, Bob; you went up a level! Sorry, Jean; your character got eaten by a grue."
 
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Experience points are a reward for what the *character* does. Whether a player was involved or not should make no difference, if the game world's internal consistency is to have any chance at all.
So you award cohorts a full share of XP?

In my game, a PC who is present without the player present is essentially treated as a cohort. Half XP for that session.

While of course my players want to play D&D, it doesn't hurt to encourage them to prioritize D&D a bit higher than they otherwise might, scheduling other commitments around the game in some cases, rather than vice-versa. Half XP (if the PC is present; no XP if not) seems to work pretty well.
 

My current campaign is at a D&D club, with highly variable players. If player is absent, PC is always absent - ill, magically asleep, hasn't arrived yet, looking after their pet baby achaierai, etc. And the PC gets no XP. I find that in the circumstances, with PCs arriving and departing all the time, it's the only way to do it.

As a player, I like XP as a reward for achievement. I'm ok with a looser system than the standard D&D approach, eg:

Typical amount achieved - standard XP award (say 3e's 300xlevel) for a typical session, say 4 challenging encounters.

Nothing achieved - no XP (rare, this would be for eg sessions taking up solely with planning or routine shopping, very boring for the GM and for many players).

Minor achievement - half standard XP - this might be where there's only 2 encounters, or lots of roleplay and character development but little risk/threat, or for preliminary investigations.

Major achievement -double standard XP - this is where you pull off the big heist, defeat the BBEG, etc.

For a typical 4 session adventure, it might go:

session 1 - set up and planning, preliminary investigation - 1/2 XP, or none.
session 2 - into the adventure, several encounters, standard XP, maybe 2/3-3/4 if threat level a bit low
session 3 - adventure continues, standard XP
session 4 - climactic battle, if victorious then double standard XP

This kind of approach doesn't require detailed calculation but neither does it create the moral hazard effects of XP-for-nothing. People say "Yeah, but we came to play, not sit around!" However if the GM gives XP for nothing, PCs get more powerful and thus more capable of success later, so there is a strong incentive to sit around until you feel powerful enough to take on the challenge.
 

S'mon: Indeed. Even though "stats" are a bit less the focus of Traveller, I think most would agree that it would rather miss the point to have a computer generate an arbitrarily vast number of characters and then spit out the most optimal one before engaging in actual play.
 

Crazy idea for mature bunch of players:

At the end of the adventure, give each player a fixed amount of xp which then can award to other PCs (not their own) as a sort of MVP/most entertaining player moment.


:)

We do that. At the end of each session, they each vote for MVP (combat wise) and MVRP (ie out of combat). The person(s) with the most votes gets an xp bonus. It has worked fine so far (been doing it for 6 months or so)
 

I think you're in a small minority here. I've been gaming for 28 years, and I've never played a game that didn't have hybrid player/PC awards. Speaking for myself, and all my players, we definitely regard accumulation of XP as such an award.

We did away with tracking XP* about two years ago and haven't looked back. It was getting really annoying that you would die and come back a level lower, thus being weaker, then being more likely to die AGAIN and come back yet another level lower. Finally we just said forget it, everyone is the same level and when we are supposed to level up the GM will let us know.

We haven't looked back and I don't miss XP hunting.

DS

*Technically we do track XP, and you can get individual player awards, but the amount of difference is so little that the difference between the lowest and highest in the party is only around 100XP at 8th level. Its more of a badge of honor than an actual game affecting thing so when you get awarded extra XP (say, for reminding the GM he forgot to do something that penalizes your character) its like getting a kudo, not a tangible game benefit.
 

But that begs the question of whether a player-character can do anything XP-worthy "in the world" without a player. If a character falls in the forest and there's no one to hear it ...
Then it either gets up and keeps going, or it lays there dead.
What if a player shows up with Bigby, Tenser or Robilar?
I'm assuming here that we're talking about characters rolled up in previous sessions, that fit with the party as per the usual expectations...
Seems to me that showing up to play matters in a way that reaping the benefits of someone else's play does not. Moreover, the aspect of internal consistency that's likely to stand out most is reaping the negative consequences of someone else's play.

"Welcome back, Mike! You know that character you took three years to get to level whatever? Yeah, well, in that session you missed, he got disintegrated."
Yep, that happens. And it's fair enough; if I'm not there for the session I know I'm taking a chance that the next session I *am* at might be spent rolling up a new one.

By the same token, sometimes it happens that the character whose player isn't there ends up being the hero.
For really thorough in-world consistency, should one not assume that player-characters are always adventuring, whether any player is "watching" them? If any game-time passes between sessions, they're Schrödinger's cat. Roll on some sort of table:

"Cool beans, Bob; you went up a level! Sorry, Jean; your character got eaten by a grue."
OK, I don't know what's-is-name's cat from any other cat, so that one's lost on me.

That said, why on earth would any game time ever pass between one session and the next? If last session ended with the party about to open a door, then this session starts with the party about to open a door. Same if last session ended with the party arriving in town and settling in for the night; next session starts at the same point. The only exception is if something gets done during the week via e-mail or similar, but that's pretty much an extension of the session anyway, and everyone knows time is passing.

I know Gygax suggests in the 1e DMG that game time should pass about in synch with real time during non-session times, but that makes so little sense as to be utterly ridiculous...the game log would read something like "Party goes to open a door, then decides to stand there for a week before trying the handle to see if it's locked."

Lanefan
 

Actually, Gygax's discussion in the DMG of time (which IIRC broadly echoes those in other rules-sets published in preceding years, although the recommended ratio of real to game time differs) is almost trivially sensible in the original context of a campaign. But then, so is the concept of players earning XP for their characters.

Having changed the one, it is likewise sensible that you have changed the others. "D & D was meant to be a free-wheeling game, only loosely bound by the parameters of the rules."
 
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