Only because there is no magic, no gods, no monsters and such in this world--because there are physical limits to things in this world. This world is limited by 'reality'. Take away the limits that are in this world, and the names I listed would be as epic in D&D as they are in this world.
Again, that is due to the reality of the world in question. Put them in this world (no magic, no monsters, etc) and they are normal people too--at best. Raistlin would be an Asthmatic with TB and severe retinal problems and would suffer and die from heavy metal poisoning (gold skin). Elminster would have succumbed to any number of STDs before hitting his first century of life, etc., etc.,.
That is exactly my point! You are trying to compare what someone can do in
this world to things people can do in
that world. If you plopped Yo Yo Ma down in FR, he would be a 5th-level nobody
if he could do in FR exactly what he could do in the real world. So being a master of the cello is only amazing around 4th-6th level, because a
real cello master can work magic with it and do other incredible things.
I knew you'd go there, or Ashtagon. You're confusing fame with skill--I'm not, and I'm fully aware of the distinction. They did MORE than Gilgamesh, Beowulf, etc., and they did it with less!
You're talking like these guys actually existed and did these things.
Given that we're speaking of a world where people
can...
Ghandi freed an entire country. That trumps hitting a river.
No. Gandhi inspired a huge mass of people to work peacefully towards their freedom, eventually gaining independence after years of work. If Gandhi had
personally freed an entire country, punching out every British soldier in India and then guarding every border against further encroachment all by himself,
that would be epic.
The Beatles affected the entire world with their music! That trumps manipulating a god any day!
No. They played music which happened to be very good, and was thus transcribed onto media which allowed people anywhere to listen to it. If they had
personally affected the entire world with their music, playing so well that anyone in the world could hear them as they played, the entire world at once,
that would be epic.
And they did it without 'superhuman' or magical powers which makes them even more epic! If they could do those things WITHOUT powers, then the things they could do if they had access to powers would put them on such a scale that they would be to Epic characters what Epic characters are to commoners!
If. If, if, if. We're comparing what someone
can do at 5th level (play the cello really well, talk people into seeking independence) with what someone
might be able to do at 20th level. Anything someone in the real world
can do can be represented by existing mechanics around 5th level.
No, that's super-stupid! Plus its the result of poorly written game mechanics that weren't even intended for skills to be used that way. There are plenty of arguments proving how broken movement mechanics are, the least of which is the most obvious--that a person can move 30' AND do something else in 6 seconds. Or move 60' in 6 seconds (move-move action). Most people can only take a single step in 1 second, muchless clear 1/5th of a football field in 6 seconds.
It's not poorly written, it's heroic--heroes should be able to swim across oceans, dog-paddle up waterfalls, and do other suitably heroic things. And, in fact, someone
can move 30 feet and act in 6 seconds; 30 feet in 3 seconds is only 6-7 miles per hour, which is a brisk jog. You can easily jog up to someone and hit them with something; being able to jog up to someone and hit them where it hurts despite defenses is what makes them fighters and not commoners.
This is assuming the DM allows that character the option to Take 10--not normally allowed when under pressure, distraction or being threatened. Being underwater about to drown is a pretty big distraction and is definitely pressuring the character. Distractions, threats, pressure, etc., don't have to come from a living source. Continue holding your breath or you drown IS a threat, so Taking 10 isn't too likely unless your DM is feeling rather generous or merciful.
Unless, you know, you're trained to hold your breath (like a competent swimmer) and it's no big deal for you. Yeah, you wouldn't let a 1st-level wizard take 10, but a 5th-level fighter with max ranks in swim? I would let him. And even if he isn't taking 10, 10 is the average result (which is why taking 10 works), so the minimum goes down only by a little bit, just like the max is a little bit higher.
And even still, its a fixed situation and another example of poor mechanics. In the real world anyone who is healthy and takes the proper training can learn to hold their breath after a few months or weeks and don't need an 18 or 20 Con to do it.
1) It's not poor mechanics! You're complaining that something that
accurately models the real world is wrong!
2) If you are healthy, have the proper training, and spend time working out over a couple of months, that's practically the definition of 18 or 20 Con.
And in the real world, anyone with a pistol can shoot someone in the head, heart or neck and kill them instantly, no levels in Assassin or Fighter required, and a sharpshooter can kill at even greater ranges than that.
You know why? Because real-world people are less than 5th level! If the highest possible HP in the real world is around 70 (super-soldiers being Fighters, 5d10+5*4 maxed) and the average is around 24 or so (as most modern people would be Experts with 14 Con or so, 3d6+3*2 maxed), then a gun could be one of two things: the equivalent of a 2d8/x4 crit weapon to kill most folks instantly--with an average of 36 damage, it kills instantly over 50% of the time, which makes sense because not all gun wounds are fatal; as a much more lethal weapon at close ranges than a bow or crossbow due to modern ammunition, it would most likely have a high threat range, around 10-20 or so--or the equivalent of a mid-level spell, dealing 7d8-9d8 damage, with the same results.
As well, the D&D longbow (like so much) ignores physics and lets players shoot at ranges that the weapon cannot really reach. Not only that, but another 'fantasy' aspect is taking a feat to increase the range. Improving yourself doesn't let you do something with a weapon that the weapon is not capable of doing.
The range issue has been covered. A feat can easily represent learning to take advantage of arc and wind speed to hit things from higher away, or simply learning to use it for long-range volleys and combat archery rather than the short-range hunting most would learn first.
--And just to be snippy, specialization is only a +2 bonus for a 5th fighter, longbows have a max range of 1000' and that max damage crit is only going to happen on 1 in 160 shots (1 in 20 critical hit, less if rolling to confirm; and 1 in 8 for max damage)--all this being far more unlikely to ever happen no matter how easy you make it sound.
I was using the composite longbow, which has a 120 foot increment (EDIT: Looks like it's only 110 in 3.5; I've been using it wrong).
And yes, it's not likely, but it's
possible--and as I was pointing out, many things D&D characters can do are
not possible, not even having an infinitesimal probability of happening.
Where did you come up with that? RAW rules for running means your guy with a 20 Con can run for 2 minutes without stopping (1 round/pt of Con). Then he has to make a DC 10 check 1 round later or stop running, with the DC increasing by +1 per round. So, even if your DM let you Take 10 on that check, after 6 rounds (36 seconds), he would have to start rolling and after 20 more rounds (2 more minutes of running)--DC check of 36, impossible to make even rolling a 20, he would fail and have to stop. So, he could run for all of 4.6 minutes--at best! At 20' base X 3 per round, that works out to just over half a mile before having to stop and catch his breath, not 6 miles.
Check the SRD, under Overland Movement.
SRD said:
Overland Movement
Characters covering long distances cross-country use overland movement. Overland movement is measured in miles per hour or miles per day. A day represents 8 hours of actual travel time. For rowed watercraft, a day represents 10 hours of rowing. For a sailing ship, it represents 24 hours.
[...]
Hustle
A character can hustle for 1 hour without a problem. Hustling for a second hour in between sleep cycles deals 1 point of nonlethal damage, and each additional hour deals twice the damage taken during the previous hour of hustling. A character who takes any nonlethal damage from hustling becomes fatigued.
A fatigued character can’t run or charge and takes a penalty of -2 to Strength and Dexterity. Eliminating the nonlethal damage also eliminates the fatigue.
The table shows 1 hour of overland hustle with a 30-foot base speed is 6 miles.
Each attack roll DOES represent a single attack, so, no, they can't.
The SRD doesn't have the flavor text, but the PHB notes that in combat, you're actually attacking many times per round and attack rolls are simply the ones that have a chance to hit, you don't actually take up 5 feet on the battlefield but are actually moving around inside that space, etc. Combat isn't people standing 5-8 feet apart taking turns swinging swords at each other.
And it has nothing to do with swinging it wildly.
Yes it does. If you pick up a greatsword and lug it around like a baseball bat made of lead, you're going to get fewer attacks than if you grab the blade, use stabbing motions, etc.
Which would be one attack against 9 people. But that's not a Whirlwind Attack. A Whirlwind Attack is making an attack against everyone within reach. A separate attack. Again, not possible IRL.
You make a separate attack
roll; again, each attack is simply a chance to hit. The flavor and the name both indicate that you're swinging around in a circle, which is why you hit everything in reach.
No, you assume I assumed. It just isn't physically possible for someone the size of a 6 year old to wrestle someone more than double their height and more than 10 times their weight.
More assumptions. You don't know that (A) the halfling doesn't have a higher Str score, because any halfling willing to get anywhere near a grapple is most likely a high-level fighter with high Str, and halflings are
not just "short humans," or that (B) the halfling isn't using technique rather than power (because grappling is pinning and immobilizing, not wrestling as the sport, which can be done through finesse or power), and doing something like the kung-fu-movie Old Guy Holds People With One Finger technique--which makes perfect sense in a fantasy world.
If we were talking about a human midget versus a human wrestler, they would both be Medium size with the same possible Strength range (with the midget having lower Str, most likely), but the midget probably wouldn't be trained for combat (because short
humans aren't as good at it) and the wrestler would be, so it would indeed come down to a matter of level, skill, and Str, and the midget would indeed have a negligible chance of winning.
In some ways, sure, because the rules were built around combat on a gridmap, not on actual physics and physical capabilities. Logic and reasoning were thrown out the window on physical stuff to a large degree. But as far as the money goes, no way. Even Epic characters with skills maxxed out in Craft, Perform and Profession can't come close to generating the kind of cash that people can make in this world. They might generate hundreds, maybe a thousand or two gp in a year, but in this day and age even the fattest, laziest, least educated, welfare-having, baby-making illegal alien, non-English speakers can rake in around $20,000 in cash and benefits--without doing more than going to their mailbox and then to a bank or casino to cash their checks!
1) Because the fattest, laziest, least educated, welfare-having, baby-making illegal alien isn't spending weeks working lovingly and carefully on a single item instead of mass-producing things in a factory, or serving tables in a culture with no concept of fairness, rights, tips, union laws, or minimum wage instead of serving tables in our culture.
2) Relative value of currency makes a difference. It used to be that 5 cents would get you a soda; now, it's $1.25 or so. A thousand or so GP is just fine and dandy when you consider that a loaf of bread that costs 2 cp in D&D costs upwards of $1-$4 depending on location--they're on the copper and silver standard unless they're adventurers or nobles, so that few thousand gold would be a few
hundred thousand USD.
You started this thread, so give it a serious look and see if it does what you're wanting with the proficiency level stuff.
I will keep your skill rule in mind, though, when I have the wherewithal to get back into design.
, but anyway...)
)
