Unhappy with masterwork, mithral, and such

A masterwork dagger costs 302 GP, a masterwork greatsword 350. The dagger weighs 1 lb, the greatsword 8 lb. The uniform price change of 300 for converting a weapon to masterwork irritates me and reduces the difference between the weapons quite a bit. Crafting a MW dagger should be much faster then the sword, but also cost much less.
Ooh, and a MW quarterstaff costs 600 GP.

Armor suffers the same ill, 10 lb and 50 lb armor costing the same +150 for armor with a base value of 5 gp - 1500 gp. MW full plate is only 10% more, while 3000% more for MW padded!

Adamantine armor costs +5000 GP for light armor, x2 and x3 that for heavier armor.
BUT>>>>
Mithral armor costs +1000 GP for light armor, but x4 and x9 that for heavier armor. ???WTF???

Suggested: MW weapons cost +100 GP and x5 base price.
MW dagger: 110 GP
MW greatsword: 350 GP
MW staff: 200 GP

Suggested: MW armor costs +100 GP and x2 base price

Next, re-doing the cost of metals!

Feedback please...

BB

100 + two times the amor price for full plate?!?!

that's crazy for just -1 to the armor check penalty.

It makes sense, but I'm just thinking about how I've never run into a problem with it before. To me it seems like a lot of things in DND, they sound kind of fishy, but at the moment they don't really hold much significance and don't need to be changed.


BUT if you really want to change them, I find your weapon price to be fine, and the armor needs maybe just something like +50/armor bonus or something...

With the mithral and adamantine I think the prices should stay the same as adamantine doesn't get all that much better with the heavier armors, but mithral really does!

Corlon:

Oh, good point about MW armor. How about 10*the weight. MW padded = +100, while MW Full Plate = +500.

Mithral Armor: (200 gp)*(weight -10lb)
Adam. Armor: (450 GP)*(weight -10lb)

Why -10 lb - I assume a % of armor weight is for padded armor underneath, buckles, leather straps & such.

Misc Mithral Item listed as 500 GP/lb, so why 200 gp/lb for armor?

not pure mithral used in armor, also, some sections backed w/regular steel

Assuming same % not used in Adam, then 1125 GP/lb. A bit high, scale it back to 1000 GP/lb of adam.

...................Adam____Mithral
Half-plate......18000___8000
Splint mail.....15750___7000
Banded mail...11250___5000
Full plate......18000___8000
Chainmail .....13500___6000
Breastplate...9000___4000
Scale mail.....9000___4000
Chain shirt....6750___3000

Next, weapons and the other 2 metals (Cold Iron, Alchemical Silver)

BB

Way back in the AD&D 1e days, I invented my own pricing scale for Svirfneblin & Drow non-magical weapons with bonuses... +1 and +2 (both To-Hit & Damage) weapons could be made of ordinary materials, and cost 2x or 5x the normal price. +3 weapons required either meteoric-iron-alloyed steel, and cost 10x the normal cost. +4 weapons were pure meteoric iron or mithril-alloyed steel and cost 20x the normal price. +5 weapons were adamantine-alloyed steel or pure mithril, and cost 50x... (Bilbo's chain vest really was worth more than the entire Shire!) +6 weapons were never seen, but would have had to be pure adamantine, and cost 100x. One +7 weapon existed, forged from the soul of its bearer, by God. It, of course, was beyond price (and also beyond the power of mages and clerics to duplicate).

My "Masterwork" weapons, suitable for enchantment, were both cheaper AND better (giving the +1 to damage, as well). Ah, those were the days, when every Svirfneblin had non-magical +1 daggers!

From the SRD:

Adamantine Weapons fashioned from adamantine have a natural ability to bypass hardness when sundering weapons or attacking objects, ignoring hardness less than 20. An arrow could be made of adamantine, but a quarterstaff could not...Items without metal parts cannot be made from adamantine. An arrow could be made of adamantine, but a quarterstaff could not.

Mithral An item made from mithral weighs half as much as the same item made from other metals. In the case of weapons, this lighter weight does not change a weapon’s size category or the ease with which it can be wielded (whether it is light, one-handed, or two-handed). Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. (A longsword can be a mithral weapon, while a scythe cannot be.)

My problems
It costs a flat 3000 GP to make a Adam weapon.
There is not pricing for mithral weapons - though they are kind enough to offer 500 GP/lb for misc items, so a mithral falchion costs 4000 GP....more then adam.

An Adamantine dagger can pierce stone, but put it on the end of a stick (i.e. a spear) and it can not pierce stone.

Mithral doesn't do anything other then lower the weapons weight, which is not a real issue. A mithral axe gets no weight break! You would think the metal end being lightened would help with encumb.

My solution: A spear, wood with a metal tip, can be sundered by targeting the tip (very hard to hurt), or the wood (very easy to sunder). Destroying the wood does not destroy the head, but until a new spear is fashioned using the adamantine/mithral/whatever head, it can not be used at all. The same goes for an axe, mace, etc. In addition, mithral weapons with 50% or more wood have their weight reduced to 2/3.

I like the idea of mithral weapons, but the system does not encourage it. My solution - a mithral weapon is treated as silver for purpose of damage reduction, w/out the -1 dmg penalty associated with alchemical silver.

Pricing: pure metal is not used for armor/weapons, rather an alloy is -
Mithral is 500 GP/lb. when pure, 200 GP/lb. mix w steel
Adamantine is 1125 GP/lb. when pure 450 GP/lb. mix w steel
These alloys are 40-60 ration mix with steel.

Adamantine is very expensive to process into a weapon, costing 1000 GP + 450 GP/lb. of weapon. The core 1000 GP is for the set up required to work with adamantine - which is ruined after cooling.
Mithral is relatively easy to process into a weapon, costing 200 GP/lb. of weapon

To recover the pure metal from the alloy, it costs 10% of the total worth of the desired metal to regain it, the remaining metal becomes a worthless slag alloy. A 10 lb. sword made of mithral is 4 lb of mithral (pure), worth 2000 GP, it costs 200 GP to reclaim the metal from the alloy. The 6 lb. of steel is ruined in the process and is discarded. This is used when taking the adamantine great sword from the fire giant and melting it down for treasure...

BB

I don't see what the problem is. the pices in the PH are just fine. if you don't like them, you are the DM, change them. if i want, i'll charge 3000 gp for a masterworked dagger, if that's the only one in the town. supply and demand drive the market, not some rigid rule in a book. i've charged PC's 10000 gp for a masterworked long sword before. they didn't buy it, but oh well. they tried to haggle, got down to 9 grand and left the shop. of course, this is in a campaign where the only magic items anyone has is a +1 long sword, a ring of protection +2 and a wand of curing. the pc's are 5th level each, and they seem pretty happy. it's all about game balance. do what works, don't follow the rules in the book. that's my take.

terrainmonkey: you miss the point. As a DM, I'll charge what the circumstances dictate - but I'm seeking a more logical base system for the crafting, buying, and selling of products such as these. The PCs may wish to sell an item, or make one, and they deserve to have a base value - though circumstances may alter the final price. Supply and demand, yes - but you need a core price to inflate/deflate.

BB