Master of Many Forms?

Darthjaye

First Post

• Jan 31, 2005

• #1

Why is it that you lose progression in this class with your wild shape ability? Aren't they suppossed to be "masters"? How does this master the shape changing ability? How come the time limit doesn't enhance? How is it you can be effective with all the large and gargattan increases if you can't even get near the hit dice to change into most of the creatures of the size category you gain? This doesn't seem to be a mastery at all to me.

 

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dvvega

Explorer

• Feb 1, 2005

• #2

First off, either I have misread the PrC or you have.

I've not got my books with me, however the PrC gives you an extra wildshape usage per day per level. So to begin with you are shapeshifting more often. This doesn't come into strength until Master of Druid 5/Many Forms 3 where you have 4 shifts a day as opposed to Druid 8 who has 3.

Secondly, the duration is 1 hours per level or something isn't it? And the Master of Many Forms levels stack with Druid levels for the determination of this. By Druid 5/Master 2 you have 3 shifts of 7 hours each (almost a complete day).

Next the Master of Many Forms starts gaining special abilities of the form he/she takes. So indeed the Master is a more powerful shapeshifter.

As to the HD limit, there are large creatures for example with low HD. Look at a Minotaur for example, 6 HD. A Druid 5/Master 1 has 6 HD as well so you can become a Minotaur without thinking. You can also shapeshift into an advanced version of a creature. So when you get Gargantuan you can become an advanced Minotaur if you desire.

D

 

Treebore

First Post

• Feb 1, 2005

• #3

The example had its duration at 5 hours, not seven. So either they made a mistake or the PrC levels do not count for advancing the Druid classes abilities.

 

dvvega

Explorer

• Feb 1, 2005

• #4

Hmmm okay then if the PrC levels don't stack for duration, the multiple shapeshifts per day more than make up for it.

At 5 hours a pop, you need 5 shifts per day to be able able to shift for 24 hours. Which means you need to be a Druid 5/Master 4 or a Druid 6/Master 3 or a Druid 7/Master 2.

Personally I would go Druid 6 or 7 to gain additional benefits (BAB and spells), and then Master of Many Forms. The Druid 8 ability is Wildshape (Large) so its not missed.

This will also increase the form duration to 6/7 hours, meaning you could stay shifted for 24+ hours (with a standard action in between).

D

 

B

boolean

Explorer

• Feb 1, 2005

• #5

The Master of Many Forms also doesn't add to the character's Druid level for determining what Hit Dice creatures they can turn into. A Druid 5/MoMf 10 can turn into a gargantuan dragon, but only if the dragon has 5 HD or less.

 

P

Pinotage

Explorer

• Feb 1, 2005

• #6

boolean said:

The Master of Many Forms also doesn't add to the character's Druid level for determining what Hit Dice creatures they can turn into. A Druid 5/MoMf 10 can turn into a gargantuan dragon, but only if the dragon has 5 HD or less.

Click to expand...

I've seen this question asked numerous times to WotC Customer Service, and every time it comes up the answer is the same. MoMF levels stack with Druid levels for wildshape duration and HD of creatures you can turn into. While that's not official, I'd rule in my games that it would be the case. I guess we'll see when the errata arrives.

Pinotage

 

Kae'Yoss

First Post

• Feb 1, 2005

• #7

It's supposed to stack. They just forgot it. So there.

 

Treebore

First Post

• Feb 1, 2005

• #8

They are supposed to state that they specifically stack with the Druid levels, like they do with the Natures Warrior PrC. So until the official errata is released it technically, by the rules, does not stack, so you are indeed limited to 5 HD. Of course if the stacking works the same way as described in the Natures warrior PrC, then you also get more than one additional wild shape per level. You also gain the Druidic progression as well.

So they are going to have to be careful in how they word the errata for this PrC. Some DM's might consider a 15th level Druid/Master of Many Forms having 14 or 15 wildshapes per day to be broken.

 

Kae'Yoss

First Post

• Feb 1, 2005

• #9

Treebore said:

They are supposed to state that they specifically stack with the Druid levels, like they do with the Natures Warrior PrC. So until the official errata is released it technically, by the rules, does not stack

Click to expand...

They forgot it. They even said it. Druid and MomF stack for wild shape duration, the rest (new sizes and additional uses) is gained with MomF anyway. This is as official as I need it. I'm no computer who needs a game update to be able to do it right.

 

dvvega

Explorer

• Feb 1, 2005

• #10

By the essence of the class, the PrC levels should be stacking. However yes, a MoMF 10 is going to be shifting a minimum of 11 times a day (Druid 5/ MoMF 10) and if he has 16 HD its going to be nasty. Especially since the special abilities are gained as well.

I guess we will have to wait for the erratta. There is no true benefit for the MoMF if the levels stack. A Druid 20 gets a maximum of 9/day, 3 of which is elemental, while a Druid 10/MoMF 10 gets 14/day (all types).

So the MomF benefits an extra 5 shifts, but loses Druid special abilities. Not overpowered at all.

D