Monks & Psionics question

Plane Sailing · Feb 4, 2005

I know that in the PHB it says of monks unarmed attacks

A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

Assuming magic/psionics transparency is in effect

a) is it reasonable to include psionic powers within "spells and effects"

b) if so, what about powers like claw of energy (requires natural weapon or claw attack), vampiric blade, metaphysical weapon... would they work on a monks unarmed attacks?

Regards,

Jdvn1 · Feb 4, 2005

I'd say
a) Yes. They're spell-like, technically.
b) Yeah.

Patryn of Elvenshae · Feb 4, 2005

Claw of Energy would not work on a Monk, barring some other power being used first.

SRD said:
If you have a claw attack (either from an actual natural weapon or from an effect such as claws of the beast), you can use this power to energize that weapon.

Otherwise, any power that works similarly to Magic Fang or Magic Weapon would work fine.

Plane Sailing · Feb 4, 2005

Sorry, I meant Weapon of Energy (which is more useful anyway, since you can enhance your shuriken and melee weapons with it nicely too!)

Patryn of Elvenshae · Feb 4, 2005

Yep. Weapon of Energy would work fine.

It's time for Flaming Fists of DOOM!

Plane Sailing · Feb 7, 2005

Another thought that has occurred to me along the same lines - how does this definition of monk unarmed combat interact with the following psionic feats:

psionic weapon
greater psionic weapon
deep impact

psionic fist
greater psionic fist
unavoidable touch

The last three obviously refer to unarmed combat and natural weapons, but what about the first three? e.g. psionic weapon says

PSIONIC WEAPON [PSIONIC]
You can charge your melee weapon with additional damage potential.
Prerequisite: Str 13.
Benefit: To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus.
Your attack with a melee weapon deals an extra 2d6 points of damage. You must decide whether or not to use this feat prior to making an attack. If your attack misses, you still expend your psionic focus.

and deep impact is similar

DEEP IMPACT [PSIONIC]
You can strike your foe with a melee weapon as if making a touch attack.
Prerequisite: Str 13, Psionic Weapon, base attack bonus +5.
Benefit: To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. You can resolve your attack with a melee weapon as a touch attack. You must decide whether or not to use this feat prior to making an attack. If your attack misses, you still expend your psionic focus.

It seems to me that the latter three feats are still useful for
a) creatures with natural weapons
b) creatures that just attacking unarmed
c) creatures that are attacking with improved unarmed combat

but that for Monks, because of their unique ability to benefit from spells or effects that are normally targetted on manufactured weapons or natural weapons the first three feats can benefit both their unarmed attacks and weapons which they choose to wield.

Is my reasoning sound here, or have I allowed a faulty assumption to creep in?

Regards,

John Q. Mayhem · Feb 7, 2005

I just took Nifft's way and folded 'em together. So there's Psionic Strike, Greater Psionic Strike, and Fell Strike; they work with unarmed attacks, natural weapons, and normal weapons.

In my siblings campaign, I'm using EoM[R], so there's no strictly defined psionics. I've made the following feats available:

Focused Warrior [general]
Prereqs: Concentration 2 ranks, Wis 13+
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Concentration checks and may make a DC 20 Concentration check as a full-round action to enter a state of focus. Blah blah, same as psionic focus.

You can then take all the Psi Weapon/Psi Shot feats.

EDIT: I'd forgotten where I got the folding idea from.

Nifft · Feb 7, 2005

I did the folding thing too, but I call them Psionic Strike, Fell Strike, etc. -- in essence, "Strike" becomes code for "Melee Attack".

-- N

Arkhandus · Feb 7, 2005

Regardless of magic/psionics transparency, a monk's unarmed strikes may be affected by psionic powers and psionic feats as though it were a manufactured weapon, and as though it were a natural weapon. Powers and the effects of psionic feats are, of course, effects. Nothing defines 'effects' in D&D to mean just 'magical effects' or just 'natural effects' or whatnot, so 'effect' covers most everything in the spectrum. This makes Psionic Fist basically pointless for a psion/monk or psychic warrior/monk, because Psionic Weapon will do just as well for the monk, and could be applied to any real weapons the monk might have to use.

Jdvn1 · Feb 7, 2005

SRD said:
A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

Does this help?

D&D Glossary said:
Psionics
These are spell-like abilities that a creature generates from the power of its mind alone -- no other outside magical force or ritual is needed.

Spell-like abilities, because they work a lot like spells, should work.

I didn't check every spell and power mentioned so far, but I think they should all work.