Combat Expertise = Better Defensive Fighting

A

Aristotle

First Post

• Feb 12, 2005

• #1

The Combat Expertise feat's notes make it seem like it is an upgrade/replacement to defensive fighting. Is that the case? It does basically the same thing, but at a lower penalty to the character.

If it doesn't replace it, then the two could be used together since dodge bonuses stack.

My main reason for answering is that I originally read the description to read that it does replace defensive fighting, so I've been allowing a character with the Two Weapon Defense feat to gain the higher bonus from that feat (as if he were Fighting Defensively) whenever he uses Combat Expertise.

I'm uncertain about that now ... although I'll likely stick to my original ruling. His AC is typically among the best in the group, but even with this additional bonus he's only a couple of points ahead of the others.

 

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Crothian

First Post

• Feb 12, 2005

• #2

both using the Combat Expertise feat and fighting defensively can be done at the same time.

 

Hypersmurf

Moderatarrrrh...

• Feb 12, 2005

• #3

PHB p140, Fighting Defensively: "This bonus stacks with the AC bonus granted by the Combat Expertise feat."

Combat Expertise is not Fighting Defensively, so you can't use Two Weapon Defense if you're only using Combat Expertise. You must be Fighting Defensively or using Total Defense.

-Hyp.

 

A

Aristotle

First Post

• Feb 12, 2005

• #4

oh well, it hasn't broken anything yet, and I've already got DM Genie scripted for it, so I'm going to keep on running it as a replacement and allowing the combo with two-weapon defense for now.

 

Creat

First Post

• Feb 12, 2005

• #5

This was actually addressed in the FAQs for the 3.0 rules (not sure about 3.5, but I assume it didn't get changed):

Because fighting defensively is mentioned in the Expertise
feat description on page 82 of the Player’s Handbook, some
people think Expertise is just a better way of fighting
defensively, but that’s not true.

Click to expand...

Also the player can choose how many points he wants to substract from his attack and added to his AC as a dodge bonus, this number just can't be higher than his base attack.

EDIT: This also means both can be used together, so a 5th level fighter could use expertise to get a +5 to AC and a -5 to hit (effectively neutralizing his base attack bonus) and take another -4 to attack for another +2 to AC.

 

Last edited: Feb 12, 2005

T

Taren Seeker

First Post

• Feb 12, 2005

• #6

Looking through Complete Adventurer, it appears WotC may be softening thier stance on the difference between the two. There are a number of places (ie: Exotic Weapons) where taking 2 points of expertise is equivalent to fighting defensively. They still stack, but I like the idea that you can use expertise to trigger special abilities that usually require fighting defensively. It's a nice synergy.

So anyways, it's a house rule that you are doing, but it's definitely not far off base according to the newest material.