Questions about EGG
ColonelHardisson
What? Me Worry?
What's interesting is that EGG has actually posted at EN World (starting back when Eric still ran it) and answered these questions a few times in detail. If I can find those threads archived, I'll link to 'em, but with the way things have been around here lately, there may be little hope of finding them...
A few bits of clarification
A few bits of clarification...
First, the Tolkein thing...Gary was saying the Ring Trilogy might have been an allegory about World War II or something similar, with Orc being Nazi's--that's all--he wasn't saying it was bad.
As far as 3e goes--yeah. We have some disagreements regarding the validity of 3e. Some of his concerns seem valid--he's concerned about people leveling quickly and then getting bored--others seem a bit biased. (I can't expect him to really love any post-Gygax edition, it's probably akin to a messy divorce).
He seems to think that each edition fractionalizes the audience, as people who hated the old stuff never go for the new stuff, which I think does happen, but so does this affect every item in pop-culture--comics, tv, movies, change with each generation, so I see it as a normal process.
He claims that there is an "underground" movement that keeps 1e alive, and he thinks he'd like to explore Hackmaster as a way to write for 1e, such as Castle Greyhawk. (I think part of this might just be a nostalgia kick). He doesn't want to give away stuff like his "in development" classes that were gonna be in the AD&D revision (Savant, Mystic, Jester) since he feels 3e sort of ruins it.
Gary is thinking in terms of his own game. Whatever you guys think regarding its sales, it is his primary focus. He involves himself in 3e for the following reasons, and he'll always have a co-writer involved to deal with specific 3e concepts.
1) Somebody contracts him to do a specific assignment: Mongoose has done this twice.
2) People agree to publish what he writes, and he does it "dual stat"--Troll Lord is publishing stuff he was originally aiming at one audience but wishes to share with the masses.
3) Other situations: Necromancer licensed the old Necropolis module for Dangerous Journeys and did the conversions themselves.
I think he has ideas he wants to share, and we drag him kicking and screaming into 3e. ;-)
A few bits of clarification...
First, the Tolkein thing...Gary was saying the Ring Trilogy might have been an allegory about World War II or something similar, with Orc being Nazi's--that's all--he wasn't saying it was bad.
As far as 3e goes--yeah. We have some disagreements regarding the validity of 3e. Some of his concerns seem valid--he's concerned about people leveling quickly and then getting bored--others seem a bit biased. (I can't expect him to really love any post-Gygax edition, it's probably akin to a messy divorce).
He seems to think that each edition fractionalizes the audience, as people who hated the old stuff never go for the new stuff, which I think does happen, but so does this affect every item in pop-culture--comics, tv, movies, change with each generation, so I see it as a normal process.
He claims that there is an "underground" movement that keeps 1e alive, and he thinks he'd like to explore Hackmaster as a way to write for 1e, such as Castle Greyhawk. (I think part of this might just be a nostalgia kick). He doesn't want to give away stuff like his "in development" classes that were gonna be in the AD&D revision (Savant, Mystic, Jester) since he feels 3e sort of ruins it.
Gary is thinking in terms of his own game. Whatever you guys think regarding its sales, it is his primary focus. He involves himself in 3e for the following reasons, and he'll always have a co-writer involved to deal with specific 3e concepts.
1) Somebody contracts him to do a specific assignment: Mongoose has done this twice.
2) People agree to publish what he writes, and he does it "dual stat"--Troll Lord is publishing stuff he was originally aiming at one audience but wishes to share with the masses.
3) Other situations: Necromancer licensed the old Necropolis module for Dangerous Journeys and did the conversions themselves.
I think he has ideas he wants to share, and we drag him kicking and screaming into 3e. ;-)
Here's a link to a Gygax interview that talks about 3E (and 2E actually.) I really like Gary's answer to the second question, when he talks about stories and RPG's. I've felt the same way about stories and D&D since I first started playing 20+ years ago, although I always get outnumbered in any discussion these days : )
http://www.cdmag.com/Home/home.html?article=/articles/032/127/010507-f2.html
http://www.cdmag.com/Home/home.html?article=/articles/032/127/010507-f2.html
A second interview. I haven't read this one in a while, so I'm not sure what it covers.
http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/columns/lynch01may01.html
http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/columns/lynch01may01.html
ColonelHardisson
What? Me Worry?
As I understand it, based on what EGG has written on these boards, Lord of the Rings only really influenced D&D in a few specific ways. Halflings are the main element in this regard.
Personally, I don't doubt that LotR had less of an influence on D&D than is commonly thought. If one reads all the books listed in the 1e DMG as influences, one begins to see just how far-ranging D&D's influences are.
It's too bad EGG feels that way about 3e. I think he's correct that there is a 1e "underground." However, I don't think each new edition fractionalizes the audience significantly; the player-base of each edition seems to plateau after a while, with few new players joining in. Newer editions pick up a lot of the older editions' players, but then draws in a lot of new players who otherwise probably wouldn't have played D&D.
It's also unfortunate that he doesn't post here much at all anymore.
Personally, I don't doubt that LotR had less of an influence on D&D than is commonly thought. If one reads all the books listed in the 1e DMG as influences, one begins to see just how far-ranging D&D's influences are.
It's too bad EGG feels that way about 3e. I think he's correct that there is a 1e "underground." However, I don't think each new edition fractionalizes the audience significantly; the player-base of each edition seems to plateau after a while, with few new players joining in. Newer editions pick up a lot of the older editions' players, but then draws in a lot of new players who otherwise probably wouldn't have played D&D.
It's also unfortunate that he doesn't post here much at all anymore.
ColonelHardisson said:
I agree. I think each new edition brings together all the "old" players, the fans of the most recent addition and new players. Depending on the overall apeal of the new edition a % will stay with D&D (wether or not they also play other games) and a % will move on, not to return unless/until another new edition is released. I think 3E has brought back together and kept more gamers than 2E. As is evident on these boards alone, a number of gamers who went from 1E to 2E gave up on 2E and either went back to 1E, on to other games, or stopped gaming altogether.
I also think it is unfortunate that he doesn't post here more often. I've always enjoyed hearing his thoughts.
Col_Pladoh
Gary Gygax
Salutations!
Fact is that of late I have been doing so much work, business and creative writing, that I am not posting much to any boards. I keep up with my own website's pretty well, and otherwise I am frequently over on www.lejendary.com and www,dragonsfoot.org
I'll be a bit more active in a week or two, but work takes precedence over fun...
Why do I produce D20 material? Well, I'd rather do OAD&D work, but I can't. So, as some have speculated here already, I do the D20 stuff to share. Thare are a lot of gamers who want to play adventures that I write. I really love my current rules-light, skill-bundle-based system, so I am most productive writing from that base. Conversion to D20 is then TCO by a co-writer. Hopefully, this will make for more fun for more gamers.
The "Gygaxian" World Builder material coming from Troll Lord Games is from a generic project I began years ago, this now growing like topsy. D20 and LA game material is featured in the books so as to make it easy for the majority of FRPGers (D&D/D20) to employ it in their campaign and adventure creation, the LA game system material included to supply those fans and also show the reader how that system manages such things easily and simply.
The point I made about the "Rings Trology" is not a unique view. Others commenting on the work also noted it reminded then of the sturdy British shopkeepers (hobbits) bearing up against the Nazis (all the bad guys) in WW II. Even the end of Souron, he going up in a cloud of smoke without a big fight, recalls the end of Adolph Hitler.
Those who point out the many authors and books referenced in an appendix of the old DMG are quite on target. Unlike many FRPG buffs, it so happens I began reading F&SF in 1948, was a hardcore fan by 1950, and in the years between then and 1970, when I wrote the CHAINMAIL Fantsay Supplement, I read thousands--literally--of yarns in those genres. The LoTR material was, in fact, a latecomer in the ranks of influences, and not one that particularly stirred my imagination, comparitively speaking.
BTW, Piratecat called my attention to this thread, or I'd be plugging away at a supermodule for D20/LA that I am doing now.
Cheerio,
Gary
Fact is that of late I have been doing so much work, business and creative writing, that I am not posting much to any boards. I keep up with my own website's pretty well, and otherwise I am frequently over on www.lejendary.com and www,dragonsfoot.org
I'll be a bit more active in a week or two, but work takes precedence over fun...
Why do I produce D20 material? Well, I'd rather do OAD&D work, but I can't. So, as some have speculated here already, I do the D20 stuff to share. Thare are a lot of gamers who want to play adventures that I write. I really love my current rules-light, skill-bundle-based system, so I am most productive writing from that base. Conversion to D20 is then TCO by a co-writer. Hopefully, this will make for more fun for more gamers.
The "Gygaxian" World Builder material coming from Troll Lord Games is from a generic project I began years ago, this now growing like topsy. D20 and LA game material is featured in the books so as to make it easy for the majority of FRPGers (D&D/D20) to employ it in their campaign and adventure creation, the LA game system material included to supply those fans and also show the reader how that system manages such things easily and simply.
The point I made about the "Rings Trology" is not a unique view. Others commenting on the work also noted it reminded then of the sturdy British shopkeepers (hobbits) bearing up against the Nazis (all the bad guys) in WW II. Even the end of Souron, he going up in a cloud of smoke without a big fight, recalls the end of Adolph Hitler.
Those who point out the many authors and books referenced in an appendix of the old DMG are quite on target. Unlike many FRPG buffs, it so happens I began reading F&SF in 1948, was a hardcore fan by 1950, and in the years between then and 1970, when I wrote the CHAINMAIL Fantsay Supplement, I read thousands--literally--of yarns in those genres. The LoTR material was, in fact, a latecomer in the ranks of influences, and not one that particularly stirred my imagination, comparitively speaking.
BTW, Piratecat called my attention to this thread, or I'd be plugging away at a supermodule for D20/LA that I am doing now.
Cheerio,
Gary
